Wrestleknownothing Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 30 minutes ago, nhs67 said: There are methods of measurements used in determining the Hodge winner - a formula, as it were. It is precisely why Lee is actually only supposed to be a 1x Hodge recipient. Steveson won it fair and square, the committee stepped in, unfairly. Domination is a determining factor. That means the more bonus the better. That is why O'Toole should be the clear #1 if Lee wrestles a shortened season - if he finishes undefeated. His style lends itself to bonus point output more than the rest, aside for Brooks. In reality it will likely come down to Brooks anf O'Toole if Lee is on a pitch count. I do not think that is quite true. Though it is hard to be 100% certain given what I have seen written about the process, I think the formula is used to narrow down the field of finalists. Then voters choose among those finalists. Obviously, the voters can be instructed to given weight to certain factors, but of course some do and some don't. And the very presence of voters means that it is not formulaic. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: I do not think that is quite true. Though it is hard to be 100% certain given what I have seen written about the process, I think the formula is used to narrow down the field of finalists. Then voters choose among those finalists. Obviously, the voters can be instructed to given weight to certain factors, but of course some do and some don't. And the very presence of voters means that it is not formulaic. From NCAA release on it itself points toward both being true...? www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2022-04-02/dan-hodge-trophy-history-winners-and-how-it-works%3famp How wrestlers are selected for the award: Originally created to celebrate the pin in college wrestling, the Dan Hodge Trophy is based on seven criteria including record, number of pins, dominance, past credentials, quality of competition, sportsmanship/citizenship and heart. The trophy is based primarily on the results of a single season, but past accomplishments are considered as well, particularly in years where the competition is tighter. The winner of the Hodge Trophy is determined based on a voting process that includes previous Hodge members, national media members, retired college coaches from each region of the United States and a representative of the national wrestling organizations in the country. Each voter is given one ballot containing the finalists, typically a group of approximately four undefeated wrestlers from the previous season, though the 2021 season included six finalists. Fans also have a chance to vote for the Hodge winner, and the athlete with the most fan votes will receive two first-place votes in the count. Voting is typically conducted after the conclusion of the NCAA tournament, and the winner is announced in April. Schools traditionally honor the Hodge winner during a fall football game as well. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, nhs67 said: From NCAA release on it itself points toward both being true...? www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2022-04-02/dan-hodge-trophy-history-winners-and-how-it-works%3famp How wrestlers are selected for the award: Originally created to celebrate the pin in college wrestling, the Dan Hodge Trophy is based on seven criteria including record, number of pins, dominance, past credentials, quality of competition, sportsmanship/citizenship and heart. The trophy is based primarily on the results of a single season, but past accomplishments are considered as well, particularly in years where the competition is tighter. The winner of the Hodge Trophy is determined based on a voting process that includes previous Hodge members, national media members, retired college coaches from each region of the United States and a representative of the national wrestling organizations in the country. Each voter is given one ballot containing the finalists, typically a group of approximately four undefeated wrestlers from the previous season, though the 2021 season included six finalists. Fans also have a chance to vote for the Hodge winner, and the athlete with the most fan votes will receive two first-place votes in the count. Voting is typically conducted after the conclusion of the NCAA tournament, and the winner is announced in April. Schools traditionally honor the Hodge winner during a fall football game as well. I was just going to look for that. Thanks. It is what I read that made me re-think the idea that it is purely formulaic. If it is a formula, why do we have voters? So the explanation that made sense to me (though completely unconfirmed) is that is a two stage process. Stage one is the objective portion where the formula is applied to determine the list of finalists. Stage two is the subjective portion where voters are provided the results of the formula to guide their choice, but they are not bound by the formula (or else it would not even be a choice). And as I type that it occurs to me that for the fan vote I do not recall if WIN shares the formula result to guide our votes. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 1 hour ago, nhs67 said: Just going off what Askren said on FRL many moons ago. He said he found out that Steveson ended up winning the vote and it gave him the separation criteria to win. Whether or not folks care to admit it, Askren would be much more in the know on this than the average bbs keyboard warrior is. Ok, so he may have won the vote, doesn’t mean he “should have” won the vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshuck Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 It must be an election year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said: I do not recall if WIN shares the formula result to guide our votes. We probably wouldn't use it anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 23 minutes ago, MPhillips said: We probably wouldn't use it anyway... something about a horse and water? 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 No fans in attendance in Austin, Texas? https://www.collegian.psu.edu/sports/penn-state-wrestlings-showing-at-nwca-all-star-classic-suggests-need-for-midseason-tournament-opinion/article_48bc2808-6ae9-11ed-b342-6fe0bdf33dfa.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le duke Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 No fans in attendance in Austin, Texas? https://www.collegian.psu.edu/sports/penn-state-wrestlings-showing-at-nwca-all-star-classic-suggests-need-for-midseason-tournament-opinion/article_48bc2808-6ae9-11ed-b342-6fe0bdf33dfa.htmlNo tickets were sold.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 As in "nobody bought any, and nobody wanted to buy any" OR "tickets weren't available for the general public"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 No general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Hopefully various college administrators in Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and New Mexico (etc.) were in attendance and inspired to consider adding wrestling to their respective colleges & universities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Just now, TitleIX is ripe for reform said: Hopefully various college administrators in Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and New Mexico (etc.) were in attendance and inspired to consider adding wrestling to their respective colleges & universities. Oklahoma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 Oklahoma has considerable growth potential. What percentage of its colleges & universities lack wrestling? I GUESS that it's at least 70%. Here's the overall list of colleges & universities in Oklahoma: https://www.okhighered.org/state-system/colleges-universities/list.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 I have previously read that 2/3's of high schools in Oklahoma lack wrestling, too. Oklahoma's nevertheless the state with the MOST NCAA D1 men's wrestling team championships... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 37 minutes ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said: Oklahoma has considerable growth potential. What percentage of its colleges & universities lack wrestling? I GUESS that it's at least 70%. Here's the overall list of colleges & universities in Oklahoma: https://www.okhighered.org/state-system/colleges-universities/list.shtml You could say that about every state if you dig up all the various small colleges & junior colleges. What percent of their major state D1 universities have wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 17 minutes ago, ionel said: You could say that about every state if you dig up all the various small colleges & junior colleges. What percent of their major state D1 universities have wrestling? Objection, Your Honor. Asked and answered (on the other board, but still) Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 13 hours ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said: Oklahoma's nevertheless the state with the MOST NCAA D1 men's wrestling team championships... This seems like fake news. If only there were a way to know for sure. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 15 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Objection, Your Honor. Asked and answered (on the other board, but still) is ^^^ this ^^^ Oklahoma data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, ionel said: is ^^^ this ^^^ Oklahoma data? Since I assume you can't prove its not, then, sure, yeah, Oklahoma OK. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Since I assume you can't prove its not, then, sure, yeah, Oklahoma OK. Yeah pretty certain this not but if you could provide the OK data I could make a better argument above. Course if you know nothing about where these data came from then that makes sense also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 38 minutes ago, ionel said: Yeah pretty certain this not but if you could provide the OK data I could make a better argument above. Course if you know nothing about where these data came from then that makes sense also. You are welcome Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: You are welcome ahh ... but 2/6 = 0.33 so your chart seems to be off a bit, plus the trend line don't look correct, but I'll give you a gold star & an attaboy for the KN effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 11 hours ago, nhs67 said: This seems like fake news. If only there were a way to know for sure. Here's the data showing that the state of Oklahoma has won more NCAA D1 team wrestling championships than any other state (even as I've read from unconfirmed sources that 2/3's of OK's high schools do not have wrestling teams): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Wrestling_Championships#Championships_by_school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 1 hour ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said: Here's the data showing that the state of Oklahoma has won more NCAA D1 team wrestling championships than any other state (even as I've read from unconfirmed sources that 2/3's of OK's high schools do not have wrestling teams): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Wrestling_Championships#Championships_by_school Oh god. You're one of those... 1 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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