Shapiro - is he really a threat to win it as Freshman?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 9/29/2023 at 3:58 PM, Ban Basketball said:

The next big thing.  Seen a lot of trust hype over the years, with many living up to just about zero. 

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No... we are talking world champs, not "next big things.'  You are responding to a thread about a young man who is a proven commodity, which was largely demonstrated by him winning junior worlds.  That is a lot of the buzz here.

[Gus]

  On 9/29/2023 at 3:59 PM, Ban Basketball said:

The next big thing/ highly hyped rasslers.

There's a BIG list from twenty year's time. 

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Ban, we are talking about Jr World Champs here. You saw the list that I provided above. There is a great chance that Shapiro will be an absolute stud. The median level guy in the list is someone like Bubba Jenkins or Mekhi Lewis. You have been provided with new info, it's time to adjust your expectations based on the new information that you have.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 9/29/2023 at 3:59 PM, Ban Basketball said:

The next big thing/ highly hyped rasslers.

There's a BIG list from twenty year's time. 

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Stop changing the topic.  Junior/U20 World champ.  

But you only follow UNI...

 

[Ban Basketball]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:00 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

No... we are talking world champs, not "next big things.'  You are responding to a thread about a young man who is a proven commodity, which was largely demonstrated by him winning junior worlds.  That is a lot of the buzz here.

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Ok,  good, i couldn't care any less. 

If you note,  I corrected my initial post in minutes when I creeped on him and saw that he's a Cornell recruit. Cornell hyped rasslers absolutely produce. 

Over and out.  It's petty and stupid. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:02 PM, Gus said:

Ban, we are talking about Jr World Champs here. You saw the list that I provided above. There is a great chance that Shapiro will be an absolute stud. The median level guy in the list is someone like Bubba Jenkins or Mekhi Lewis. You have been provided with new info, it's time to adjust your expectations based on the new information that you have.

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TBH he did adjust his expectations when he heard Shapiro was attending Cornell.  Apparently attending Cornell is more closely related to D1 wrestling success that World titles in Ban's universe?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:04 PM, Ban Basketball said:

Ok,  good, i couldn't care any less. 

If you note,  I corrected my initial post in minutes when I creeped on him and saw that he's a Cornell recruit. Cornell hyped rasslers absolutely produce. 

Over and out.  It's petty and stupid. 

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Then why are you here, in this thread, and still responding?

[Ban Basketball]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:02 PM, Gus said:

Ban, we are talking about Jr World Champs here. You saw the list that I provided above. There is a great chance that Shapiro will be an absolute stud. The median level guy in the list is someone like Bubba Jenkins or Mekhi Lewis. You have been provided with new info, it's time to adjust your expectations based on the new information that you have.

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Good,  awesome!

I don't care.  I also said that he WILL produce because he's going to Cornell.

[Ban Basketball]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:02 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Stop changing the topic.  Junior/U20 World champ.  

But you only follow UNI...

 

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Awesome,  good! He's my hero!

[Ban Basketball]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:04 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Then why are you here, in this thread, and still responding?

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Because you're asking me to reply. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:05 PM, Ban Basketball said:

Good,  awesome!

I don't care.  I also said that he WILL produce because he's going to Cornell.

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You're silly.

[Ban Basketball]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:04 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

TBH he did adjust his expectations when he heard Shapiro was attending Cornell.  Apparently attending Cornell is more closely related to D1 wrestling success that World titles in Ban's universe?

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I just didn't know he had that hardware. 

I just assumed North Dakota multi-time champ,  unbeaten high school career,  etc. Many of those don't produce. 

Happy for him and happy for Cornell. I'll be sure to watch him. 

[Ban Basketball]

  On 9/29/2023 at 4:07 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

You're silly.

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Absotutly batty, I done tell ya!

I sleep well though. 

[AnklePicker]

Now someone compile the list of guys who have won both cadet AND junior world titles for the US.  I can think of Gable who won 2 cadet titles and 1 junior title.  Are there any others in USA wrestling history?  I'd say that puts Shapiro in some pretty rarified air.  If you don't think he has a chance to win a title this year, you haven't actually watched him wrestle. 

[Gantry]

I think Spencer Lee did it

[Gus]

  On 9/29/2023 at 5:35 PM, AnklePicker said:

Now someone compile the list of guys who have won both cadet AND junior world titles for the US.  I can think of Gable who won 2 cadet titles and 1 junior title.  Are there any others in USA wrestling history?  I'd say that puts Shapiro in some pretty rarified air.  If you don't think he has a chance to win a title this year, you haven't actually watched him wrestle. 

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It's Gable, Spencer Lee, Mark Hall and Meyer Shapiro. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Gus

[CHROMEBIRD]

  On 9/29/2023 at 2:01 PM, Gus said:

USA Jr Freestyle World champs since 2005

2007 - Bubba Jenkins

2013 - Kyle Snyder

2015 - Spencer Lee

2016 - Spencer Lee, Mark Hall

2017 - Daton Fix, Mark Hall, Gable Steveson

2018 - Mekhi Lewis

2019 - David Carr, Mason Parris

2021 - Kegan O-Toole, Rocky Elam, Braxton Amos

2022 - Jore Volk, Ben Kueter

2023 - Meyer Shapiro, Mitchell Mesenbrink

From what I can see on Cadet & Jr world champs the list includes: Gable Steveson, Mark Hall & Meyer Shapiro

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Many many years ago on the old forum someone mentioned that winning a Junior World title is a reliable predictor of success in NCAA wrestling. SHP? JB? Nomad? I can't remember who said it but is has held up pretty well.

[AnklePicker]

  On 9/29/2023 at 5:41 PM, Gus said:

It's Gable, Spencer Lee, Mark Hall and Meyer Shapiro. 

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Thanks Gus!

[Ban Basketball]

  On 9/29/2023 at 5:53 PM, CHROMEBIRD said:

Many many years ago on the old forum someone mentioned that winning a Junior World title is a reliable predictor of success in NCAA wrestling. SHP? JB? Nomad? I can't remember who said it but is has held up pretty well.

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That was me who said that. 

[billyhoyle]

  On 9/29/2023 at 5:53 PM, CHROMEBIRD said:

Many many years ago on the old forum someone mentioned that winning a Junior World title is a reliable predictor of success in NCAA wrestling. SHP? JB? Nomad? I can't remember who said it but is has held up pretty well.

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Because the US has not been the best country in the world at wrestling-anybody good enough to beat them was likely much better than most competition domestically.

I wonder if this trend will change if Russia’s drop off continues.

[Ban Basketball]

  On 9/29/2023 at 9:48 PM, billyhoyle said:

Because the US has not been the best country in the world at wrestling-anybody good enough to beat them was likely much better than most competition domestically.

I wonder if this trend will change if Russia’s drop off continues.

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It kills me to reply to you,  but you make an interesting pernt. When MMA first came onto the scene many were decrying the death of Olympic/ International wrestling for the U.S.

That apprehension apparently didn't pan out,  or at least currently. 

[billyhoyle]

  On 9/29/2023 at 10:01 PM, Ban Basketball said:

It kills me to reply to you,  but you make an interesting pernt. When MMA first came onto the scene many were decrying the death of Olympic/ International wrestling for the U.S.

That apprehension apparently didn't pan out,  or at least currently. 

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People were afraid MMA would turn into a legitimate sport and not the WWE ripoff/freak show that it is now.  

[Eagle26]

  On 9/29/2023 at 5:41 PM, Gus said:

It's Gable, Spencer Lee, Mark Hall and Meyer Shapiro. 

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That’s a pretty short list of incredibly talented wrestlers! Interestingly, the only one of those three (excluding Meyer) to not win an NCAA title as a true freshman was Gable Steveson! I think it’s safe to assume Shapiro can compete for an NCAA title right away. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 9/29/2023 at 10:01 PM, Ban Basketball said:

It kills me to reply to you,  but you make an interesting pernt. When MMA first came onto the scene many were decrying the death of Olympic/ International wrestling for the U.S.

That apprehension apparently didn't pan out,  or at least currently. 

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It may have hurt Russia more.  For instance, lot of Dagestanis who would have likely been wrestlers have picked up MMA instead.  These guys may not have competed in wrestling for Russia or in big tourneys, but went to MMA young.  Dagestan doesn't have an unlimited supply of young men, and I think MMA may be taking away from their wrestling demographic.

[Ban Basketball]

  On 9/30/2023 at 8:28 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

It may have hurt Russia more.  For instance, lot of Dagestanis who would have likely been wrestlers have picked up MMA instead.  These guys may not have competed in wrestling for Russia or in big tourneys, but went to MMA young.  Dagestan doesn't have an unlimited supply of young men, and I think MMA may be taking away from their wrestling demographic.

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What little I follow international wrestling I haven't been able to help but notice over the past few years that every other name at the top is not a Russian any longer. 

[Pinnacle]

What is Shapiro's weight class this year?

Nevermind, I checked wrestlestat who has Shapiro ranked at 201 yet easily dispatching 2nd ranked Levi Haines. But, but, but ... the algorithm!

Edited September 30, 2023 by Pinnacle