Stanford to join ACC

[nhs67]

For all sports, starting 2024-25...

 

 

[nhs67]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38304694/sources-acc-votes-invite-stanford-cal-smu

[Wrestleknownothing]

The Athletic is re-branding it the All Coasts Conference.

[11986]

so does this help the chances of Stanford wrestling having a long-term wrestling program moving forward? I hope so but not sure. Stanford / UNC Koll fueled rivalry be a nice wrinkle. And very happy to add more depth to ACC wrestling. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

This works out pretty well for wrestling.  Other sports, not so much.  Better have some good pitching for baseball!

Stanford wrestling could handle a weekend (every other year) where they travelled to the Triangle to wrestle the Wolfpack, UNC, and Duke.  Not great for your bullpen's arms in baseball.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[flyingcement]

Can't imagine that this is a good thing for wrestling.  At least the ACC schools have large pools of wealthy donors, but as for the programs themselves?  As far as I know, Duke does not offer 9.9 scholarships.  And they're going to be flying the whole team back and forth to Stanford for duals every year?  Are travel expenses worth considering or is it just a drop in the bucket for their budget?  

[flyingcement]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

This works out pretty well for wrestling.  Other sports, not so much.  Better have some good pitching for baseball!

Stanford wrestling could handle a weekend (every other year) where they travelled to the Triangle to wrestle the Wolfpack, UNC, and Duke.  Not great for your bullpen's arms in baseball.

I think from a competitive standpoint it makes sense and the ACC with only six teams could use some new blood.  I was thinking from geographic and expense angle a bit more cynically.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

10 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I think from a competitive standpoint it makes sense and the ACC with only six teams could use some new blood.  I was thinking from geographic and expense angle a bit more cynically.

Stanford hits UNC, NC State, Duke one weekend.  The next year they hit UVA and VTech.  That won't be too bad at all.

[ionel]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

This works out pretty well for wrestling.  Other sports, not so much.  Better have some good pitching for baseball!

Stanford wrestling could handle a weekend (every other year) where they travelled to the Triangle to wrestle the Wolfpack, UNC, and Duke.  Not great for your bullpen's arms in baseball.

You really think Stanford will now keep wrestling?  Sure if Koll had stayed but now needing a new coach and increased travel cost to the east coast.  My Iowa sources say Burr had a better chance of a heart attack before pulling the trigger.  I'm betting no. 

[goheels1812]

I’ve been privy to a few conversations with various school officials about realignment and I have a pretty high level of confidence this will be a long-term disaster for the ACC. I’ll try to keep this somewhat short and concise. 
 

The thinking from some of the bigger brands in the ACC (FSU, Clemson, and UNC) is that this is completely detrimental to the conference. There are a large number of reasons such as: geography is not ideal for most sports other than football (imagine being a tennis player and needing to fly from Florida to California for one match during a rigorous week of class) and the schools invited don’t bring anywhere near the value needed to compete with the big 10 and SEC in revenue sharing. 
 

From what I’ve heard from people involved in these conversations is there is a high level of confidence that Florida State, Clemson, and UNC will be looking to leave the ACC in the near future. Basically as soon as they can justify paying their way out of the GoR. FSU damn near already did that this year. All 3 of those schools were *vehemently* opposed to the new schools joining. NC State was originally opposed, but ended up being swayed to vote “yes” in the end. 
 

What’s left of the ACC in 3, 5, 7 years etc. is anyone’s guess. Right now it looks like it will be more of a mid-major conference with schools like Cal, Stanford, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Wake Forest, etc. leading the way. Those schools can’t bring in anywhere near the revenue to compete with the B10, SEC, or even the B12 financially. 
 

I’ve also heard that Duke and NC State will want to follow UNC if at all possible. FSU and Clemson will try to get into the SEC and UNC will try to get into the B10. This is going to be a story that continues to develop over the next 3-5 years, but I would be absolutely shocked if by 2030 the ACC looks anywhere close to how it looks today. 

[Husker_Du]

1 hour ago, flyingcement said:

  As far as I know, Duke does not offer 9.9 scholarships.  

they offer 0.0

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

18 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

I’ve been privy to a few conversations with various school officials about realignment and I have a pretty high level of confidence this will be a long-term disaster for the ACC. I’ll try to keep this somewhat short and concise. 
 

The thinking from some of the bigger brands in the ACC (FSU, Clemson, and UNC) is that this is completely detrimental to the conference. There are a large number of reasons such as: geography is not ideal for most sports other than football (imagine being a tennis player and needing to fly from Florida to California for one match during a rigorous week of class) and the schools invited don’t bring anywhere near the value needed to compete with the big 10 and SEC in revenue sharing. 
 

From what I’ve heard from people involved in these conversations is there is a high level of confidence that Florida State, Clemson, and UNC will be looking to leave the ACC in the near future. Basically as soon as they can justify paying their way out of the GoR. FSU damn near already did that this year. All 3 of those schools were *vehemently* opposed to the new schools joining. NC State was originally opposed, but ended up being swayed to vote “yes” in the end. 
 

What’s left of the ACC in 3, 5, 7 years etc. is anyone’s guess. Right now it looks like it will be more of a mid-major conference with schools like Cal, Stanford, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Wake Forest, etc. leading the way. Those schools can’t bring in anywhere near the revenue to compete with the B10, SEC, or even the B12 financially. 
 

I’ve also heard that Duke and NC State will want to follow UNC if at all possible. FSU and Clemson will try to get into the SEC and UNC will try to get into the B10. This is going to be a story that continues to develop over the next 3-5 years, but I would be absolutely shocked if by 2030 the ACC looks anywhere close to how it looks today. 

I have also heard that NC State was looking into leaving.  Did I hear Big 12?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

they offer 0.0

Yeah, that is the case.  I don't think they have enough money at that institution to afford those scholarships.  Duke is really struggling financially, by all accounts.

[goheels1812]

2 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I have also heard that NC State was looking into leaving.  Did I hear Big 12?

Yup! I’ve heard that too. My dad worked directly with several different AD’s at Wake Forest my entire life so he knows a ton of people in the athletic offices at Wake, UNC, Duke, and NC State. Last I talked to him he said that he was hearing State will always prefer to stick with UNC first and foremost (due to the natural rivalry and long term history there). But he also said if push comes to shove State will look out for themselves first so the b12 is 100% in play for them. 

[Voice of the Quakers]

The list of ACC schools looking to leave the league for football purposes, other than Clemson, is comical. Florida will campaign against FSU or Miami, which has flat stunk in football for the past two decades, from being invited to the SEC. The football history of UNC, NC State, UVA and VT is negligible. I can understand UVA and UNC wanting to join the B1G for the academic prestige; enjoy the annual drubbings against Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, etc.

Ultimately, among big time schools, you can argue that only Penn State has benefitted from the realignment of the past 20 years, and they weren't previously in a football conference. Imagine how things would be different if the Big East hadn't stiffed them decades ago.

Finally, I am really looking forward to the inevitable collapse of these new super conferences and a return to more regional competition across football and all sports. It is inevitable that some combination of Bama, UGA, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Texas, etc. looks at Kentucky, Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss State, MIssouri, etc., and says "Why are we sharing our football money with these jokers?" and the other conferences will follow suit. 

[goheels1812]

14 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

The list of ACC schools looking to leave the league for football purposes, other than Clemson, is comical. Florida will campaign against FSU or Miami, which has flat stunk in football for the past two decades, from being invited to the SEC. The football history of UNC, NC State, UVA and VT is negligible. I can understand UVA and UNC wanting to join the B1G for the academic prestige; enjoy the annual drubbings against Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, etc.

 

I agree with most of your points, but your initial premise is partially incorrect. This is all about money and revenue sharing, which football is the main driver of. We can sit here and laugh all day about how bad Florida State has been the past decade, but it’s irrefutable they bring money to the table. And a lot of it. They are absolutely peeved that they have to equally share the same amount of revenue with schools like Boston College and Wake Forest, who don’t bring anything to the table financially. This is being worked on by the ACC, but still hasn’t been solved yet because why would BC and Wake and similar schools be willing to give up money they were initially guaranteed?

 

Meanwhile your money workhorses in the SEC will make 30-40 million dollars more in revenue sharing. They can use that money to totally leave behind the ACC in every sport in the era of NIL. B10 and SEC schools will make double what ACC schools make in 10 years if nothing changes. It’s a crappy hand that was forced when the conference realignment carousel kicked off last year. 
 

Will UNC get crapped on by Michigan and Ohio State football? Sure, probably. I’m not sure how that’s much different than the ACC arrangement though. UNC is a perineal 8-4 team and that wouldn’t really change in the B10. Our games against OSU and Mich will look like our games against Clemson. But what UNC does bring is ridiculous brand power which = money. That’s really what all this conference moving junk is about. Im with you though, I yearn for the day of going back to regionally based conferences and not super conferences. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by goheels1812

[lightweight]

20 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

 

Will UNC get crapped on by Michigan and Ohio State football? Sure, probably. I’m not sure how that’s much different than the ACC arrangement though. UNC is a perineal 8-4 team and that wouldn’t really change in the B10. Our games against OSU and Mich will look like our games against Clemson. But what UNC does bring is ridiculous brand power which = money. That’s really what all this conference moving junk is about. Im with you though, I yearn for the day of going back to regionally based conferences and not super conferences. 

"perineal"; clever pun, or just that damn auto-correct again? 

[Gus]

Wait a second.... I thought the NCAA was a non-profit organization for amateur athletics?

[goheels1812]

3 minutes ago, lightweight said:

"perineal"; clever pun, or just that damn auto-correct again? 

Whoops I work in the medical field so let’s just go with my phone autocorrected lol

[lightweight]

3 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

Whoops I work in the medical field so let’s just go with my phone autocorrected lol

Happens to the best of us, Dr. Proctologist. 

 

[Voice of the Quakers]

49 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

I agree with most of your points, but your initial premise is partially incorrect. This is all about money and revenue sharing, which football is the main driver of. We can sit here and laugh all day about how bad Florida State has been the past decade, but it’s irrefutable they bring money to the table. And a lot of it. They are absolutely peeved that they have to equally share the same amount of revenue with schools like Boston College and Wake Forest, who don’t bring anything to the table financially. This is being worked on by the ACC, but still hasn’t been solved yet because why would BC and Wake and similar schools be willing to give up money they were initially guaranteed?

 

Meanwhile your money workhorses in the SEC will make 30-40 million dollars more in revenue sharing. They can use that money to totally leave behind the ACC in every sport in the era of NIL. B10 and SEC schools will make double what ACC schools make in 10 years if nothing changes. It’s a crappy hand that was forced when the conference realignment carousel kicked off last year. 
 

Will UNC get crapped on by Michigan and Ohio State football? Sure, probably. I’m not sure how that’s much different than the ACC arrangement though. UNC is a perineal 8-4 team and that wouldn’t really change in the B10. Our games against OSU and Mich will look like our games against Clemson. But what UNC does bring is ridiculous brand power which = money. That’s really what all this conference moving junk is about. Im with you though, I yearn for the day of going back to regionally based conferences and not super conferences. 

I get this is all about football, by which I mean money.

UNC's brand power is via basketball. No one cares about their football team outside of alums. They do not move the national needle one bit via football. And that will be true even if Drake Maye wins the Heisman this year. Most casual college football fans will say "Who?" Whatever football brand they have would be whittled away moving to the B1G and taking their beatings.

FSU thinks they move the needle via football. I know they're sharing TV ratings data with the other ACC schools that portray themselves in the best possible light - I could probably shoot a million holes in their data. (How many of those high profile games are against UF and ND? Who is actually the draw?) Again, I don't see why the SEC would invite them  - again, UF will object - when the next move by the SEC, short of adding Clemson and telling South Carolina to take a hike, would be to get smaller, not bigger.

[creek chub]

Has there been any rumors for VT looking for a new conference? They can compete with anyone other than PSU in wrestling so I’d personally like to see the go to the BIG 10. They’d get squashed in most other sports there most notably in FB but I only follow wrestling so that’s not a concern of mine

[goheels1812]

35 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

I get this is all about football, by which I mean money.

UNC's brand power is via basketball. No one cares about their football team outside of alums. They do not move the national needle one bit via football. And that will be true even if Drake Maye wins the Heisman this year. Most casual college football fans will say "Who?" Whatever football brand they have would be whittled away moving to the B1G and taking their beatings.

FSU thinks they move the needle via football. I know they're sharing TV ratings data with the other ACC schools that portray themselves in the best possible light - I could probably shoot a million holes in their data. (How many of those high profile games are against UF and ND? Who is actually the draw?) Again, I don't see why the SEC would invite them  - again, UF will object - when the next move by the SEC, short of adding Clemson and telling South Carolina to take a hike, would be to get smaller, not bigger.

I think we are just viewing this a lot differently. UNC football may not be a “needle mover” nationally, but neither are 75% of the other teams in the B10. You keep talking about the UNC beatdowns incoming if they move, but outside of Michigan and Ohio State I’m not sure where you’re finding those games. Maybe Penn State? They seem to win a lot of very close games though.  
 

Didn’t the B10 want UCLA? Is that a massive football powerhouse? No, it’s a damn good brand though. We are talking about a team that’s yearly football attendance is right at 40,000. I watched Nebraska play Minnesota last night and I’m positive UNC would hang 45 points on both of those teams (now our defense may also give up 45 points… but I digress on that yearly catastrophe). 

I’ve also seen some internal and external data about the individual team value to the ACC and have a high level of confidence that Florida State does very well financially. Dozens and dozens of lawyers have also analyzed that data and come to the same conclusion. Florida state in a disappointing year is still selling out games against Wake Forest and Boston College (see last year). Those teams aren’t doing them any favors with attendance and revenue generation. Here’s financial data from 2018 (when Florida State was terrible) showing that they make the 13th most money of any college in America and are right on par with Florida (144 million vs 149 million): https://www.tampabay.com/sports/florida-gators/2018/06/28/usa-today-florida-gators-fsu-among-15-richest-college-programs-in-the-country/?outputType=amp.

We can definitely revisit this in a few years but if Florida State, Clemson, and UNC are still in the ACC something crazy will have happened. It’s definitely going to be an interesting ride. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by goheels1812

[Husker_Du]

i don't understand the coveting of Florida State.

seems to me they've stunk the last decade or so. 

is it a market thing? 

i'd imagine Miami (who has stunk as equally) would bring more eyeballs but i'm just guessing. 

[Leg rider]

3 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

i don't understand the coveting of Florida State.

seems to me they've stunk the last decade or so. 

is it a market thing? 

i'd imagine Miami (who has stunk as equally) would bring more eyeballs but i'm just guessing. 

It is an eyeballs thing, people forget Miami is a small private school, they have an aging bandwagon fan base from their glory years, but does not have an alumni base near the size of FSU