Coleman Scott moving back to Ok St = John Smith retirement imminent?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Given Coleman Scott was head coach at UNC moving back to Ok St to be associate head coach seems like a demotion, UNLESS he's been promised the head coach position in the next few years.  Scott + Smith, Esposito, Perry and Caldwell is a LOT of coaches unless someone will be leaving imminently.  

 

[DPJ]

Espo took the otc job last week. Hard to say what the time-line is for smith to retire. 

[Paul158]

8 hours ago, DPJ said:

Espo took the otc job last week. Hard to say what the time-line is for smith to retire. 

Probably 1 to 2 years.

[alex1fly]

1-2 years makes sense logically but big decisions like this are highly influenced by emotions. John has absolutely reloaded the Okie State staff with alumni greats... Gary Wayne and Chandler Rogers last year, Guerrero and Heil and Coleman this year. Hard to see John ever *not* being involved with the program in some way. It's been a central component of his life for almost 40 years.

[Gantry]

I'm also skeptical that John would simply promise the job to Scott over his nephew who has been there (and rumored to be the heir apparent) for like a decade now.   Then again does Scott take the downgrade in position if he's not given some assurance of being the next man up for the coaching gig? 

[ionel]

48 minutes ago, Gantry said:

I'm also skeptical that John would simply promise the job to Scott over his nephew who has been there (and rumored to be the heir apparent) for like a decade now.   Then again does Scott take the downgrade in position if he's not given some assurance of being the next man up for the coaching gig? 

Its not John's to promise, the AD and President are gonna have just a little bit of input.

This is prob similar to when Illinois hired Mark Perry Jr. but I predict the result will be quite different.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

... and what about the upcoming college career of the young Smith kid?

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

... and what about the upcoming college career of the young Smith kid?

Does he look like a D1 wrestler at this point?  Although a would say that Joe came on later, wasn't tearing it up at kids club level.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

22 minutes ago, ionel said:

Does he look like a D1 wrestler at this point?  Although a would say that Joe came on later, wasn't tearing it up at kids club level.

I haven't seen much on him lately, but I think he had some good wins early in HS.

[RYou]

Scott was reportedly making $170,000 at UNC.  Do you think OSU has a little more available?

Smith's contract was for 562,320.05

[1032004]

45 minutes ago, RYou said:

Scott was reportedly making $170,000 at UNC.  Do you think OSU has a little more available?

Smith's contract was for 562,320.05

FRL said Espo was making more than Scott in like 2017

[D3 for LU]

58 minutes ago, RYou said:

Scott was reportedly making $170,000 at UNC.  Do you think OSU has a little more available?

Smith's contract was for 562,320.05

... that nickel is significant!

D3

[de4856]

So Espo has been with the Cowboys since forever, I wonder why he wasn’t the heir apparent. I get that Coleman has an Olympic medal and head coaching experience, but Espo is a guy who has been there for many years. 

[Tigerfan]

7 minutes ago, de4856 said:

So Espo has been with the Cowboys since forever, I wonder why he wasn’t the heir apparent. I get that Coleman has an Olympic medal and head coaching experience, but Espo is a guy who has been there for many years. 

Who says he isn’t? Maybe Scott was told that if he ever wanted the HC position at OSU, he better get there and and impress in order to compete with Espo in a year or two when Smith retires. 

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

Branch, Pendleton, Erisman, Ward, and a lot of other qualified dudes will more than likely throw their proverbial hats in the ring for this, too, if/when the time comes. It would be a tough sell to administrators to pluck a guy with zero head coaching experience as the new face of what they hope to return to dynasty phase when you have that many alumni with head coaching experience, as well as who knows how many other non-Okie State candidates from bigger programs who will make a run at the job leading the Cowboys back to prominence.

[alex1fly]

1 hour ago, de4856 said:

So Espo has been with the Cowboys since forever, I wonder why he wasn’t the heir apparent. I get that Coleman has an Olympic medal and head coaching experience, but Espo is a guy who has been there for many years. 

Espo left for the OTC. My hunch is that he is a candidate, yes. But he either doesn’t want to be a full head coach with all the duties outside of coaching, or he is going to the OTC to get some different experience before competing for the Okie State head coach position. 

[TexRef]

48 minutes ago, Tom formerly Tofurky said:

Branch, Pendleton, Erisman, Ward, and a lot of other qualified dudes will more than likely throw their proverbial hats in the ring for this, too, if/when the time comes. It would be a tough sell to administrators to pluck a guy with zero head coaching experience as the new face of what they hope to return to dynasty phase when you have that many alumni with head coaching experience, as well as who knows how many other non-Okie State candidates from bigger programs who will make a run at the job leading the Cowboys back to prominence.

I would say that Branch is the only one on your list that has a snowballs chance. 

[TexRef]

It seems like every year someone on this forum and the past one, brings up "This is the year that John Smith retires".

Is it me or have we run out things to talk about that involve college wrestling?

I like the Coleman Scott hire and that Espo took the job in Colorado Springs. I just don't think Smith is going to retire, soon. 

[Tom formerly Tofurky]

5 hours ago, TexRef said:

I would say that Branch is the only one on your list that has a snowballs chance. 

Not even Pendelton, huh?

The rest are stretches, for sure, but that doesn't mean they won't shoot their shots. I imagine Mark Perry will be in that mix, too.

[ionel]

5 hours ago, TexRef said:

I would say that Branch is the only one on your list that has a snowballs chance. 

 

9 minutes ago, Tom formerly Tofurky said:

The rest are stretches, for sure, but that doesn't mean they won't shoot their shots. I imagine Mark Perry will be in that mix, too.

No and No

[TexRef]

5 hours ago, Tom formerly Tofurky said:

Not even Pendelton, huh?

The rest are stretches, for sure, but that doesn't mean they won't shoot their shots. I imagine Mark Perry will be in that mix, too.

I like what Pendleton has done so far, but he needs a few more years under his belt. 

[fishbane]

 

On 8/24/2023 at 8:02 AM, RYou said:

Scott was reportedly making $170,000 at UNC.  Do you think OSU has a little more available?

Smith's contract was for 562,320.05

On 8/24/2023 at 8:48 AM, 1032004 said:

FRL said Espo was making more than Scott in like 2017

It's hard to know for sure, but I think Scott has been paid more than Espo the past 3-4 seasons.  There are two websites that have these numbers open payrolls and gov salaries.  Both sites had data for Scott and only open payrolls had information for Espo.  The two years both sites had pay information for Scott they were substantively different, with open payrolls reporting lower pay both years.  I think gov salaries reports total compensation and open payrolls maybe just base salary.

There was only 1 year were was pay data available for both coaches on the same website (2020/open payrolls).  In this year Scott made $150k and Esposito made $135,412.47 according to Open Payrolls, with gov salaries reporting Scott's pay even higher at $166,250.  This might not be the most representative year as a lot of athletic department staff had to take a haircut in 2020 since COVID drastically reduced athletic budgets across the country.  Scott made less in 2020 than 2019 according to gov salaries and according to open payroll Esposito also made less in 2020 than 2019, but this could be due to differing bonus amounts tied to performance too.

Some other notes on Scott's compensation.  He was hired as an assistant at UNC in 2014 and elevated to interim head coach in June 2015 when CD Mock was fired.  In August he was named head coach dropping the interim designation.  In late 2018 he signed a contract extension which ran through June 2021.  That contract is available here and indicates a base salary of $150k for 2018-2019 through 2020-2021 with the contract year being July 1-June 30.  Additionally a contract addendum signed in 2020 shows that Scott's base salary was reduced by 10% to $135k for the 2020-2021 contract year likely due to covid budget issues.  He likely signed a new contract which started in either late 2020 or the first half go 2021 which took effect July 2021.

I am not 100% sure how the contract numbers relate to what is being reported by open payrolls and gov salaries.  For Open Payrolls it seems pretty obvious to me that they are reporting Scott's base salary as 2020 matches the contract number of $150k and 2021 matches the contract addendum number of $135k and he would have earned bonuses based on the 2018 contract both years.  In 2020 UNC had 7 NCAA qualifiers which should have earned Scott a $10,000 bonus.  He may have earned other bonuses tied to academic performance too.  I think the Gov Salaries number likely is consistent with $150k base +$10k bonus for 6-7 NCAA qualifiers +$6.25k in other bonuses.  Though I am less certain of being able too find $45k in bonuses for 2020 or $72.5k in bonuses for 2021 to make the Gov Salaries numbers match the Open Payrolls/contract base salary numbers.  Certainly Scott would have received a large bonus in 2021 as Austin O'Connor's national title would have earned him $20k along with with $10k for 7 qualifiers and in 2019 he would have received $15k for 8 qualifiers.  In either year he could have earned up to $15k in bonuses for academic performance, but that still leaves him tens of thousands of dollars short of the gov salaries figure. The contract allows for "various supplementary performance-related compensation payments made at the discretion of the Director of Athletics in accordance with the Department of Athletics' Incentive Compensation Plan approved by the Board of Trustees" which could explain the difference.  

If I had to guess I would say in 2015 as an assistant Scott made $65k base.  From 2016-2018 inclusive he was on about $120k base with 2016 being a little lower since he got the job 1.5 months into the year.  From 2019-2021 he had a $150k base and the Gov Salaries numbers are accurate and reflect bonuses paid.  The COVID haircut he took in 2021 was likely made up for with a discretionary bonus after he produced their first national champ since Jaworsky.  Scott signed a new deal in 2021 which bumped his 2021-2022 base salary up to $170k.  He likely broke $200k this past season with a national champ (O'Connor) and 5 NCAA qualifiers earning him at least $25k, assuming the same bonus structure as the contract signed in late 2018. 

Coleman Scott

2022 - $170,000 (Open Payrolls)

2021 - $207,500 (Gov Salaries)/$135,000 (Open Payrolls)

2020 - $166,250 (Gov Salaries)/$150,000 (Open Payrolls)

2019 - $195,000  (Gov Salaries)

2018 - ?

2017 - $120,000  (Gov Salaries)

2016 - $113,917  (Gov Salaries)

2015 - $65,118  (Gov Salaries)

Zach Esposito

2020 - $135,412.47 (Open Payrolls)

2019 - $143,599.96 (Open Payrolls)

2018 - $141,099.96 (Open Payrolls)

2017 - $139,299.96 (Open Payrolls)

2016 - $116,883.29 (Open Payrolls)

2015 - $91,599.93 (Open Payrolls)

[fishbane]

 Also in case anyone missed it UNC was providing Scott with a car to use or comparable annual stipend. 

[fishbane]

Found some more data

Coleman Scott

2023 - $180,000 (UNC System data mart/Charlotte Observer/base salary)

2022 - $170,000 (Open Payrolls)

2021 - $207,500 (Gov Salaries)/$135,000 (Open Payrolls)/$150,000 (Base Contract)/$135,000 (Base Contract addendum)

2020 - $166,250 (Gov Salaries)/$150,000 (Open Payrolls)/$150,000 (Base Contract)

2019 - $195,000  (Gov Salaries)/$150,000 (Base Contract)

2018 - ?

2017 - $120,000  (Gov Salaries)

2016 - $113,917  (Gov Salaries)

2015 - $65,118  (Gov Salaries)

Zach Esposito

2023 - $129,583.30 (open the books)

2022 -$153,933 (Gov Salaries)/$153,933.29 (Open Payrolls)

2021 - $124,162 (Gov Salaries)/$124,162.47 (Open Payrolls)

2020 - $135,412 (Gov Salaries)/$135,412.47 (Open Payrolls)

2019 - $143,600 (Gov Salaries)/$143,599.96 (Open Payrolls)

2018 - $141,099.96 (Open Payrolls)

2017 - $134,883 (Gov Salaries)/$139,299.96 (Open Payrolls)

2016 - $116,883 (Gov Salaries)/$116,883.29 (Open Payrolls)

2015 - $108,033 (Gov Salaries)/$91,599.93 (Open Payrolls)

Edited September 5, 2023 by fishbane

[Idaho]

Not that it's a huge factor, but the cost of living between those two cities is pretty significant, especially in terms of housing.