Losing … and don’t do much to win

[Dark Energy]

Just watched a wrestler, down by many points, do a whole lot of nothing in last minute of a match.  Kinda danced in tie ups.  
 

Always surprises me.  Your losing.  Who cares if you lose by tech or pin or by points.  It is a tourney — you are losing.  Do something to win!!  Try something.  Go for it!!  

Edited August 17, 2023 by Dark Energy

[Paul158]

1 hour ago, Dark Energy said:

Just watched a wrestler, down by many points, do a whole lot of nothing in last minute of a match.  Kinda danced in tie ups.  
 

Always surprises me.  Your losing.  Who cares if you lose by tech or pin or by points.  It is a tourney — you are losing.  Do something to win!!  Try something.  Go for it!!  

Its not over until the fat lady sings.  Never stop wrestling. My younger brother pinned  3 or 4  State Champions in Ohio. He often was trailing in the 3rd period but he had a deadly cradle and he new it. So did the people he wrestled. It didn't matter. Never give up.

[Ivan Stankowski]

I have always told my kids if your losing by more then 2 points with a minute left your a loser and should have tried harder earlier in the match, don't come crying to me 

 

[BlackCat]

This happens so often that there must be a valid reason. It's not that all these losing wrestlers are dumb or unaware.

[billyhoyle]

Losing a match isn't a reason to start wrestling like an idiot. 

[Dark Energy]

19 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Losing a match isn't a reason to start wrestling like an idiot. 

Sounds right.  But it is a reason to actually do something to try to win.   Even to the point of taking big risks. Agree?

[billyhoyle]

3 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Sounds right.  But it is a reason to actually do something to try to win.   Even to the point of taking big risks. Agree?

There's a reason what you described is so common. These guys are elite wrestlers and can tell when it isn't happening in a match.  This isn't youth and high school wrestling. At a certain point if you are down enough points you are wrestling for your pride as well and are just trying to stay in the match.   

[Dark Energy]

Rings a bell.  Something about being content to lose by a certain amount.  I have admitted defeat, let’s not let the defeat look worse.  Sound right?

[npope]

36 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

There's a reason what you described is so common. These guys are elite wrestlers and can tell when it isn't happening in a match.  This isn't youth and high school wrestling. At a certain point if you are down enough points you are wrestling for your pride as well and are just trying to stay in the match.   

Tell that to Rob Rohn

 

[billyhoyle]

3 hours ago, npope said:

Tell that to Rob Rohn

 

I didn't say comebacks don't happen. Just that it's not like a video game where you hit a button and try for a hail mary pass.  Rohn had that cement mixer in him and hit it on multiple people at that tournament. That doesn't mean it's worth it for most people to  throw random headlocks.  I can only assume that people who are amazed at why some people will lose by 10 and seem not to do much at the end of the match haven't wrestled beyond high school. 

[npope]

4 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

I didn't say comebacks don't happen. Just that it's not like a video game where you hit a button and try for a hail mary pass.  Rohn had that cement mixer in him and hit it on multiple people at that tournament. That doesn't mean it's worth it for most people to  throw random headlocks.  I can only assume that people who are amazed at why some people will lose by 10 and seem not to do much at the end of the match haven't wrestled beyond high school. 

I understand that you didn't say that no one ever comes back near the end of a match, but you also said that when the "writing is on the wall" wrestlers at the highest levels are more likely to simply accept the beating and get off the mat ASAP...and that's the part I have trouble with. I don't really know if that's a true assessment of the competitive nature at that level (and I did indeed wrestle in college) but even more, I hope like heck it isn't accurate. I count among the many valuable lessons I learned from the years competing is that a person should never quit when there is still "time on the clock." I buy into the value of believing "It ain't over till its over" and it colors all aspects of my life. 

So, to think the many greats of our sport think otherwise on this point "ruffles" me a bit and I resist accepting your premise.

[11986]

14 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Rings a bell.  Something about being content to lose by a certain amount.  I have admitted defeat, let’s not let the defeat look worse.  Sound right?

Didn't Metcalf say something like that about Palmer? he was content to lose by __?

[billyhoyle]

11 hours ago, npope said:

I understand that you didn't say that no one ever comes back near the end of a match, but you also said that when the "writing is on the wall" wrestlers at the highest levels are more likely to simply accept the beating and get off the mat ASAP...and that's the part I have trouble with. I don't really know if that's a true assessment of the competitive nature at that level (and I did indeed wrestle in college) but even more, I hope like heck it isn't accurate. I count among the many valuable lessons I learned from the years competing is that a person should never quit when there is still "time on the clock." I buy into the value of believing "It ain't over till its over" and it colors all aspects of my life. 

So, to think the many greats of our sport think otherwise on this point "ruffles" me a bit and I resist accepting your premise.

So you’re saying you never lost a match in a tournament by 6-10 points? And you did this through wrestling in college? 

[npope]

1 hour ago, billyhoyle said:

So you’re saying you never lost a match in a tournament by 6-10 points? And you did this through wrestling in college? 

Please reread the post. I think you are just being deliberately dense now. What was said was that one of the most poignant learning moments from my wrestling career was that I never quit trying - no matter the score. I have lost many times by a variety of scores - but that has nothing to do with the post that was made.

[billyhoyle]

1 hour ago, npope said:

Please reread the post. I think you are just being deliberately dense now. What was said was that one of the most poignant learning moments from my wrestling career was that I never quit trying - no matter the score. I have lost many times by a variety of scores - but that has nothing to do with the post that was made.

I just find it hard to believe you've never been overmatched in a match to the point where you really didn't have anything left at the end.  The best wrestlers in the world will hit the point in some matches that they realize it isn't happening-and throwing a pointless headlock isn't going to make a difference.. It's a normal part of competing, and I'm just surprised you wrestled through college with a record of wins and only losing by pin-sounds like you have a better attitude than even the greats in the sport. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by billyhoyle

[npope]

52 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

I just find it hard to believe you've never been overmatched in a match to the point where you really didn't have anything left at the end.  The best wrestlers in the world will hit the point in some matches that they realize it isn't happening-and throwing a pointless headlock isn't going to make a difference.. It's a normal part of competing, and I'm just surprised you wrestled through college with a record of wins and only losing by pin-sounds like you have a better attitude than even the greats in the sport. 

You are the only one saying that I only lost by pins - no one else said that. I said I learned to never quit while there was still time on the clock. Obvious that you aren't reading what is posted and writing your own narrative so you really don't need anyone responding to you - so I'm out - go for it.

[billyhoyle]

2 hours ago, npope said:

You are the only one saying that I only lost by pins - no one else said that. I said I learned to never quit while there was still time on the clock. Obvious that you aren't reading what is posted and writing your own narrative so you really don't need anyone responding to you - so I'm out - go for it.

I think you're just a bit confused about the premise in the thread.  I'm not saying people stop trying. You're not special that you kept trying throughout the match.  What OP said is why is there a lot of nothing happening at the end of the match-at a high level of wrestling-fighting ties and hand fighting is wrestling. No point in taking a stupid shot.  Here's the post from OP as a refresher-notice the emphasis on losing by pin/tech. So if you in fact did follow what OP is suggesting and do everything possible at the end to win until you lose by tech/pin, that would be special because no wrestler actually does that.

 

On 8/17/2023 at 9:14 AM, Dark Energy said:

Just watched a wrestler, down by many points, do a whole lot of nothing in last minute of a match.  Kinda danced in tie ups.  
 

Always surprises me.  Your losing.  Who cares if you lose by tech or pin or by points.  It is a tourney — you are losing.  Do something to win!!  Try something.  Go for it!!  

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by billyhoyle

[Dark Energy]

You are warping what I wrote.  There are not only two outcomes possible - win or lose by tech/pin.  

My point, which I believe is clear, is I am surprised some seem to not try all that hard to win.  They seem to concede the loss.  I would think they would keep trying to win and be willing to take risks even if the risk means that they may lose by a wider margin - perhaps by tech or pin.  At least they gave themselves a chance to win.

You seem to feel that it is common to simply give up.  Admit being outmatched and try to save some pride.  I would suggest that giving up is not achieving that.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Dark Energy