Tripnsweep Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 D2 school in Virginia is closing due to financial issues and losing their accreditation to award degrees. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Bryant Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 West Virginia. We will lose a men’s team and an announced women’s team that never actually competed. 1 Insert catchy tagline here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 Very unfortunate for the students ..... a huge financial mess that unfortunately puts a lot of students in a bind for graduation this coming year. Sponsored by INTERMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) Could investors take over and keep them sailing straight? Or is the loss of accreditation irreversible? I've not seen why they lost it. But I do remember how Sweetbriar College (near Lynchburg, Virginia) was a goner... until the alumnae came in and inspirationally saved it. This was just under a decade ago... I tried to persuade them to add women's wrestling back then (I'm not aware that men were admitted then) but it didn't happen. Only one other women's wrestling team existed in Va. back then (Ferrum). For more on saving Sweetbriar: https://vixenathletics.com/ https://www.facebook.com/savesweetbriar https://www.sbc.edu/live/news/3214-sweet-briar-college-exceeds-all-financial-goals As for saving A.B. university... do their alumni wanna help? They still have a little bit of time to appeal their loss of accreditation, or something along those lines: https://www.highereddive.com/news/alderson-broaddus-university-loses-state-operating-approval-portending-clo/689582/ Edited August 4, 2023 by TitleIX is ripe for reform 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said: Could investors take over and keep them sailing straight? Or is the loss of accreditation irreversible? I've not seen why they lost it. But I do remember how Sweetbriar College (near Lynchburg, Virginia) was a goner... until the alumnae came in and saved it. This was just under a decade ago, I seem to recall... I tried to persuade them to add women's wrestling (I'm not aware that men were admitted then) but it didn't happen. Investors? What would the be investing in? Where's the return on investment? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) Well, a Chinese business based in New York bought Virginia Intermont College's campus cerca 2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Intermont_College I like the alumni rescue model, but I'm not seeing much of a fighting spirit (yet) at the Save A.B. University page here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/806042444565059 Edited August 4, 2023 by TitleIX is ripe for reform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ban Basketball Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Get a little used to this, folks. It's all part of a nationwide trend that will affect these smaller, private schools first. Owner of over two decades of the most dangerous words on the internet! In fact, during the short life of this forum, me's culture has been cancelled three times on this very site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) What remedies would you recommend for such schools? Adding or maintaining wrestling programs seems prudent. Wrestlers reportedly tend to be solid students who find ways to pay their bills. Meanwhile, it also seems prudent focusing on offering majors in areas of study that are more likely to enable the students to find jobs, and obtain gainful income later, too. Maintaining nonprofit status also helps, for tax reasons. I'm reminded of Grand Canyon U. in Arizona, and how they had to drop wrestling after losing that status. Staying in contact with alumni and trying to remain engaged with (and useful to) them also seems prudent. Banking on the continuing availability of student loans doesn't seem wise, though. After all: http://www.USDebtClock.org Edited August 4, 2023 by TitleIX is ripe for reform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripnsweep Posted August 4, 2023 Author Share Posted August 4, 2023 GCU dropped wrestling because they went D1 and the money they used for wrestling went for basketball. Since some of the major donors to GCU are from the basketball world, like former Suns owner Jerry Colangelo, GCU did what they wanted. Going D1 for that school was an awful idea. Outside of basketball none of their sports are competitive. They finished top 3 at the D2 tournament twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 That's too bad. Thanks for sharing those insights. Meanwhile reportedly they now have stricter requirements with which to comply, after losing their nonprofit status: https://www.highereddive.com/news/judge-rejects-grand-canyon-university-for-profit-status-lawsuit/637913/ It's sad to see their wrestling program lost amidst the transition and turbulence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom formerly Tofurky Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 5 hours ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said: What remedies would you recommend for such schools? Adding or maintaining wrestling programs seems prudent. Wrestlers reportedly tend to be solid students who find ways to pay their bills. Meanwhile, it also seems prudent focusing on offering majors in areas of study that are more likely to enable the students to find jobs, and obtain gainful income later, too. Maintaining nonprofit status also helps, for tax reasons. I'm reminded of Grand Canyon U. in Arizona, and how they had to drop wrestling after losing that status. Staying in contact with alumni and trying to remain engaged with (and useful to) them also seems prudent. Banking on the continuing availability of student loans doesn't seem wise, though. After all: http://www.USDebtClock.org As the world becomes more secular, there is less need for small schools, which tend to be religiously affiliated. They rely less on whatever organizations founded them, and their older, religious, dedicated alumni are dying off, and not leaving much, if anything to these schools in their wills. ABU was tied to the Baptist Church. The solution for a lot of them is to jack up tuition (the illusion that "you get what you pay for", even if what they really mean is that school has only a local reputation for quality education) and start sports programs to bring in numbers. Most of these schools are enrollment driven, so when the tuition is too high and/or students start leaving with mountains of debt, those schools numbers go down, which then has a negative impact on short and long-term giving. Many of these schools are also caught up in the "arms race" of the modern college landscape, where boards are approving the construction of brand new buildings or other tangible additions to their campuses (rock climbing walls, gyms, and other recreational facilities) before they shore up their shrinking endowments. One other strategy is mimicking what community colleges have done, and start embracing the dual credit model of earning college credit for gen eds while in high school. Some of these small, private schools are banking (pun intended) on forming an allegiance with many of these students so that they will enroll at said institutions after graduation. It's still fairly early in the game to indicate any real stability for most schools. Sure, these schools can offer majors that everyone else has, but then the market becomes watered down, and after the last financial crisis and COVID, private schools (more specifically their tuition rates) don't have the same gravitas they used to have. The other end of that is that trends in labor change. Jobs that are popular today, may be antiquated in five years from now with the rate of technological development. Kids are learning more and more and more, too, that many employers don't value them beyond what they did that day. "The Great Resignation" or whatever term you want to use for it, hasn't disappeared, and people don't stay at jobs very long anymore, especially when they don't feel valued or supported. So, you can go to college, incur a ton of debt (in some cases), start with an employer only to have them treat you poorly or you can just go to work and eliminate that college debt, which seems to be what a lot of folks are doing. Add to that that college debt is being reported on so much these days that it is scaring the peepers out of a lot of kids whose families have scraped by n the last decade or so, and earning money right away seems to be a better option for many who were already on the proverbial fence about going to college. Anyway, I apologize for rambling. I am on both sides of this as an employee in higher education, and as a parent of four teenagers discerning what/if higher ed is right for them, and I have no easy answer for that. The only thing I can say is that I have yet to personally meet a person in any line of work who said, "earning that college degree was a waste of time." I am sorry for everyone around the ABU decision to close. That is heartbreaking news. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRef Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 There are a lot of small colleges that drank the Kool Aid that Mike Moyer sold them, that if they add a men's and women's wrestling program they will have over 60 new athletes on campus, and most paying full price. The pitch goes on to explain that the institution can hire 1 coach for both programs and only pay them $50K. A legal slot machine! A bad recipe for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 16 hours ago, Tripnsweep said: GCU dropped wrestling because they went D1 and the money they used for wrestling went for basketball. Since some of the major donors to GCU are from the basketball world, like former Suns owner Jerry Colangelo, GCU did what they wanted. Going D1 for that school was an awful idea. Outside of basketball none of their sports are competitive. They finished top 3 at the D2 tournament twice. Their baseball team is very competitive nationally. Last month they had three players drafted in the first five rounds, including the 6th overall pick. 2 Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ban Basketball Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 16 hours ago, Tom formerly Tofurky said: As the world becomes more secular, there is less need for small schools, which tend to be religiously affiliated. They rely less on whatever organizations founded them, and their older, religious, dedicated alumni are dying off, and not leaving much, if anything to these schools in their wills. ABU was tied to the Baptist Church. The solution for a lot of them is to jack up tuition (the illusion that "you get what you pay for", even if what they really mean is that school has only a local reputation for quality education) and start sports programs to bring in numbers. Most of these schools are enrollment driven, so when the tuition is too high and/or students start leaving with mountains of debt, those schools numbers go down, which then has a negative impact on short and long-term giving. Many of these schools are also caught up in the "arms race" of the modern college landscape, where boards are approving the construction of brand new buildings or other tangible additions to their campuses (rock climbing walls, gyms, and other recreational facilities) before they shore up their shrinking endowments. One other strategy is mimicking what community colleges have done, and start embracing the dual credit model of earning college credit for gen eds while in high school. Some of these small, private schools are banking (pun intended) on forming an allegiance with many of these students so that they will enroll at said institutions after graduation. It's still fairly early in the game to indicate any real stability for most schools. Sure, these schools can offer majors that everyone else has, but then the market becomes watered down, and after the last financial crisis and COVID, private schools (more specifically their tuition rates) don't have the same gravitas they used to have. The other end of that is that trends in labor change. Jobs that are popular today, may be antiquated in five years from now with the rate of technological development. Kids are learning more and more and more, too, that many employers don't value them beyond what they did that day. "The Great Resignation" or whatever term you want to use for it, hasn't disappeared, and people don't stay at jobs very long anymore, especially when they don't feel valued or supported. So, you can go to college, incur a ton of debt (in some cases), start with an employer only to have them treat you poorly or you can just go to work and eliminate that college debt, which seems to be what a lot of folks are doing. Add to that that college debt is being reported on so much these days that it is scaring the peepers out of a lot of kids whose families have scraped by n the last decade or so, and earning money right away seems to be a better option for many who were already on the proverbial fence about going to college. Anyway, I apologize for rambling. I am on both sides of this as an employee in higher education, and as a parent of four teenagers discerning what/if higher ed is right for them, and I have no easy answer for that. The only thing I can say is that I have yet to personally meet a person in any line of work who said, "earning that college degree was a waste of time." I am sorry for everyone around the ABU decision to close. That is heartbreaking news. This is spot on correct. Owner of over two decades of the most dangerous words on the internet! In fact, during the short life of this forum, me's culture has been cancelled three times on this very site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 5, 2023 Share Posted August 5, 2023 7 hours ago, TexRef said: There are a lot of small colleges that drank the Kool Aid that Mike Moyer sold them, that if they add a men's and women's wrestling program they will have over 60 new athletes on campus, and most paying full price. The pitch goes on to explain that the institution can hire 1 coach for both programs and only pay them $50K. A legal slot machine! A bad recipe for sure. Perhaps the schools would have collapsed a lot sooner if they hadn't implemented Mike Moyer's advice to develop a core nucleus of students? Coach Moyer was quite a resourceful college coach back in the day. His George Mason U. team over-achieved time & time again, with comparatively very limited resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 (edited) As an update, judging from the Save A.B. University page linked below, there still does not seem to be much of a drive to rescue the university. Energies are being focused on assigning blame and vowing retribution for politicians, instead. https://www.facebook.com/groups/806042444565059 It's been said that unlike neighboring Virginia's Sweetbriar College (whose alumnae saved the school from seemingly sure closure a few years ago), A.B. University lacks the wealthy alumni and political influence that A.B. University's alumni and other fans seem to believe are necessary to rebound. It would have been inspirational to see wrestlers take the lead with helping A.B. University bridge off of its back. Edited August 27, 2023 by TitleIX is ripe for reform Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyhoyle Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 5 hours ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said: As an update, judging from the Save A.B. University page linked below, there still does not seem to be much of a drive to rescue the university. Energies are being focused on assigning blame and vowing retribution for politicians, instead. https://www.facebook.com/groups/806042444565059 It's been said that unlike neighboring Virginia's Sweetbriar College (whose alumnae saved the school from seemingly sure closure a few years ago), A.B. University lacks the wealthy alumni and political influence that A.B. University's alumni and other fans seem to believe are necessary to rebound. It would have been inspirational to see wrestlers take the lead with helping A.B. University bridge off of its back. Why should wrestlers help with this? Why not just transfer somewhere that can provide a better education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 they could. Sponsored by INTERMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 On 8/27/2023 at 5:01 AM, billyhoyle said: Why should wrestlers help with this? Why not just transfer somewhere that can provide a better education? You've raised a legitimate point. They originally chose A.B. University for a reason though (or several), and maybe the school's worth saving. It's collapse was rather abrupt in some ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 I just saw the following statistic at an unofficial source: 70%+ of the student body at A.B. University were student athletes... _ Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 5 hours ago, TitleIX is ripe for reform said: You've raised a legitimate point. They originally chose A.B. University for a reason though (or several), and maybe the school's worth saving. It's collapse was rather abrupt in some ways. Without knowing any specifics of this situation I am left to wonder, if it needs saving, it probably isn't worth saving. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 21 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Without knowing any specifics of this situation I am left to wonder, if it needs saving, it probably isn't worth saving. You've raised a legitimate point although perhaps a small group of administrators ran the place into the ground, financially speaking, while the student athletes (70% of the students, reportedly) were busy studying and playing sports. Abuse of authority can take endeavors off course, but sometimes turnarounds are achievable and worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 Their athletics website remains functional (for now): https://GoBattlers.com Their women's wrestling team was just getting underway, so contents are admittedly thin there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitleIX is ripe for reform Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 West Virginia Wesleyan recently became custodian of Alderson Broaddus' academic transcripts. I see that they don't have wrestling (yet): https://WesleyanBobcats.com/ When UNO (Nebraska: Omaha) abruptly dropped wrestling, a team emerged (like a Phoenix) in St. Louis, MO. https://maryvillesaints.com/sports/wrestling Might this be a possibility at West Virginia Wesleyan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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