Election and Jan 6 charges

[Offthemat]

It’s evidence of the two tiered justice system that goes on steroids when Trump is involved. 

[Paul158]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

It’s evidence of the two tiered justice system that goes on steroids when Trump is involved. 

Very true.

[WrestlingRasta]

I couldn’t agree more on the two tier justice system.  There are plenty of cases of people stealing classified military plans. Very few indicted with evidence as strong as….the accused’s own words and videos. 
 

Yet, they weren't allowed to remain free after charges, and continuously threaten the DOJ.  Arrested on the spot. 
 

….”yeah but”….

 

Blah blah blah.  MAGA!

Edited July 29, 2023 by WrestlingRasta
Grammar police

[Plasmodium]

I'm interested in watch how far poor, naive Carlos De Oliveira goes under the bus.  His lawyer was supplied by Trump.  That lawyer most definitely knows who butters his bread.

[Offthemat]

Trump is not a people, he’s a President, and that means he’s authorized to do a lot of things that secretaries of state , vice presidents, and senators are not.  Biden won’t be indicted because he’s a sitting president, but if Trump can be imprisoned, Biden can be impeached. 

[WrestlingRasta]

Felony charge #’s 75, 76, 77, 78

And MAGA is on the twitterverse talking about his right to lie and throw the whole nation into a frenzy is protected by the first ammendment. 
 

I feel sorry for these poor people. 

[WrestlingRasta]

Couple little pieces that don't look too good when it comes to this trail:

The assigned judge has sat for 11 Jan 6 cases thus far, all 11 convicted by the jury.  In those, the judge matched the prosecution recommended sentence four times, and went heavier than the prosecution recommendation in the other seven.

Also interesting, the indictment specifically says that he knew, all of the election claims were false and he spread them anyway, which means they will have to absolutely prove what he did or did not believe, which is pretty difficult to do right.  Where it gets interesting is the prosecution will go first, and they will have tons of evidence and testimony, from his own people, that will say he was told repeatedly by his team that the election was not stolen. (They are going to put a long line of admin officials and legal counsel on the stand to hammer this point down).  The only way he is going to be able to combat that is to take the stand himself.      Oh my.

[Paul158]

14 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Couple little pieces that don't look too good when it comes to this trail:

The assigned judge has sat for 11 Jan 6 cases thus far, all 11 convicted by the jury.  In those, the judge matched the prosecution recommended sentence four times, and went heavier than the prosecution recommendation in the other seven.

Also interesting, the indictment specifically says that he knew, all of the election claims were false and he spread them anyway, which means they will have to absolutely prove what he did or did not believe, which is pretty difficult to do right.  Where it gets interesting is the prosecution will go first, and they will have tons of evidence and testimony, from his own people, that will say he was told repeatedly by his team that the election was not stolen. (They are going to put a long line of admin officials and legal counsel on the stand to hammer this point down).  The only way he is going to be able to combat that is to take the stand himself.      Oh my.

Intent . (Hillary) precedent.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Paul158

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Intent . (Hillary) precedent.

I don't think Trump will use you to represent him.

[Paul158]

13 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I don't think Trump will use you to represent him.

Probably not . I wouldn't advice it. But it worked under similar circumstances.

[Paul158]

This has been going on for 7 years. The government has probably spent north of 60 million dollars on all these investigations. I'll admit there is a lot I don't like about Donald Trump. He and his lawyers have done a lot of stupid things. If found guilty so be it. I'm 68 years old and I have never seen a political party so intent on destroying a political opponent. I'm all for a good hard fought fair election . Then you crown the winner. Everybody moves on and gets on with their life  ( your family,your work,helping others). It looks like that ship has sailed.

[WrestlingRasta]

2 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

This has been going on for 7 years. The government has probably spent north of 60 million dollars on all these investigations. I'll admit there is a lot I don't like about Donald Trump. He and his lawyers have done a lot of stupid things. If found guilty so be it. I'm 68 years old and I have never seen a political party so intent on destroying a political opponent. I'm all for a good hard fought fair election . Then you crown the winner. Everybody moves on and gets on with their life  ( your family,your work,helping others). It looks like that ship has sailed.

Until that loser of the election tries to overthrow the US government and the results of an election that are at the very basis of our constitutional republic….

Then you go after them. Because if you don’t and there’s no accountability, what’s to stop the next (or same) nut job from trying again, and learning from the previous attempt’s failures. 

[Paul158]

4 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Until that loser of the election tries to overthrow the US government and the results of an election that are at the very basis of our constitutional republic….

Then you go after them. Because if you don’t and there’s no accountability, what’s to stop the next (or same) nut job from trying again, and learning from the previous attempt’s failures. 

Thats fine  but as I pointed out this started 7 tears ago before he was sworn  into office. That is what I don't understand. Maybe you can explain. 

[Bigbrog]

8 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Until that loser of the election tries to overthrow the US government and the results of an election that are at the very basis of our constitutional republic….

Then you go after them. Because if you don’t and there’s no accountability, what’s to stop the next (or same) nut job from trying again, and learning from the previous attempt’s failures. 

Come on Rasta...your take on things and the rhetoric you use about Trump is the far extreme.  I do not like the guy at all but what Paul said is 100% true...there has never been an attack on a political opponent than like the D's have unleashed on Trump...NEVER!  Did Trump say stupid stuff, even during the Jan 6th stuff...YES!  Did he say stupid stuff afterwards...YES!!  But he did NOT cause Jan 6th to happen!  He did NOT try and overthrow the US government!!  It is all blown out of proportion because the D's hate Trump with a passion and people like you (I like you Rasta) eat it up just because you hate Trump...but some of it is a little off the wall.  CNN/MSNBC/ABC have created this monster along with the establishment D's...attack Trump!!!  

The sad part of it all is I really can't see how justice could be achieved on any political person at this point due to the politicalization of our legal system all because people disagree with each other, and they don't like Trump saying mean things...it should be an embarrassment to everyone no matter if you are progressive or a MEGA (whatever the heck that means anyway).  Us as a society should see right through all this crap and demand it stops by voting these idiots out of there...but unfortunately it won't happen as long as people lap up what the MSM feeds them.

[WrestlingRasta]

8 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Thats fine  but as I pointed out this started 7 tears ago before he was sworn  into office. That is what I don't understand. Maybe you can explain. 

An investigation into the attempted overthrow of the U.S. govt in 2021 started seven years ago?  I think I’m the one who does not understand. 

[WrestlingRasta]

Just now, Bigbrog said:

Come on Rasta...your take on things and the rhetoric you use about Trump is the far extreme.  I do not like the guy at all but what Paul said is 100% true...there has never been an attack on a political opponent than like the D's have unleashed on Trump...NEVER!  Did Trump say stupid stuff, even during the Jan 6th stuff...YES!  Did he say stupid stuff afterwards...YES!!  But he did NOT cause Jan 6th to happen!  He did NOT try and overthrow the US government!!  It is all blown out of proportion because the D's hate Trump with a passion and people like you (I like you Rasta) eat it up just because you hate Trump...but some of it is a little off the wall.  CNN/MSNBC/ABC have created this monster along with the establishment D's...attack Trump!!!  

The sad part of it all is I really can't see how justice could be achieved on any political person at this point due to the politicalization of our legal system all because people disagree with each other, and they don't like Trump saying mean things...it should be an embarrassment to everyone no matter if you are progressive or a MEGA (whatever the heck that means anyway).  Us as a society should see right through all this crap and demand it stops by voting these idiots out of there...but unfortunately it won't happen as long as people lap up what the MSM feeds them.

Did you read the indictment?

[Bigbrog]

1 minute ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Did you read the indictment?

Parts of it yes...not the whole thing as I didn't have the time.  What I read is inferring a lot of things that could be said about a lot of people during Jan 6th that wouldn't have even been given a second look if it wasn't because it was Trump...and I mean it even if it was a past president.  Until I see any evidence of him saying "I am going to overthrow the government!" or "Hey supporters I'm calling on you all to storm the capital with the intent of overthrowing the election!"  it is all an attempt to twist words to fit a narrative to bring Trump down because people just can't stand him.  I'd be more apt to believe any of this if he hadn't faced what he faced from the time he decided to run for president through today.  Heck we have had past presidential candidates that lost elections say it was stolen, or it wasn't fair...yet no indictments....no investigations...no huge media outrage.  

Again I don't like the guy but it isn't hard to see what is happening if you truly open your eyes.  Sad part of it all for me is if he really is guilty of anything egregious I am not sure how any of it will be able to be brought to life and prosecuted because of the political circus that was created because of peoples utter hate for a guy.

[Paul158]

9 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

An investigation into the attempted overthrow of the U.S. govt in 2021 started seven years ago?  I think I’m the one who does not understand. 

OK. I said the democrat machine went after Trump 7 years ago. Even before he was sworn in. ( to be President). They have been going after him for 7 years now. So yes they were going after Trump before Jan. 6th.

[WrestlingRasta]

13 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Parts of it yes...not the whole thing as I didn't have the time.  What I read is inferring a lot of things that could be said about a lot of people during Jan 6th that wouldn't have even been given a second look if it wasn't because it was Trump...and I mean it even if it was a past president.  Until I see any evidence of him saying "I am going to overthrow the government!" or "Hey supporters I'm calling on you all to storm the capital with the intent of overthrowing the election!"  it is all an attempt to twist words to fit a narrative to bring Trump down because people just can't stand him.  I'd be more apt to believe any of this if he hadn't faced what he faced from the time he decided to run for president through today.  Heck we have had past presidential candidates that lost elections say it was stolen, or it wasn't fair...yet no indictments....no investigations...no huge media outrage.  

Again I don't like the guy but it isn't hard to see what is happening if you truly open your eyes.  Sad part of it all for me is if he really is guilty of anything egregious I am not sure how any of it will be able to be brought to life and prosecuted because of the political circus that was created because of peoples utter hate for a guy.

Okay so do me a favor, read all 45 pages of the indictment, including the supporting evidence and testimony, and most importantly who that evidence and testimony came from, before ranting on me about being extreme and just buying into mainstream media, and then come back and let’s have a conversation. 
 

To clarify ‘hatred for trump’, just want to clarify that’s not at all accurate. First, I don’t have hatred period, there’s no benefit to it. I have concern, concern for what could happen to the US if someone who wants authoritative control succeeds in gaining it. Which leads me to the second piece, it’s not trump that interests me in the case, it’s a former president who, by the evidence and testimony of his own people seems to have attempted to overturn the election on multiple fronts, and thereby overthrow the government (I’ll keep it at seems to until there is a verdict). If you replace the name trump with Clinton or Obama or Biden, and everything else remains the same….the evidence, testimony, and who it derives from……my concern and interest in this case is exactly the same. 
 

So just read the whole indictment, objectively, and come back and let’s chat. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by WrestlingRasta

[WrestlingRasta]

3 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

OK. I said the democrat machine went after Trump 7 years ago. Even before he was sworn in. ( to be President). They have been going after him for 7 years now. So yes they were going after Trump before Jan. 6th.

I’m talking specifically about this case. We could go on and on about the last seven years from both sides, but that’s already been done ad nauseum. I’m talking specifically about this case, how it is playing out in the courts of law and not how it’s playing out on Twitter. There’s plenty of spaces for that if you want to have those conversations. 

[Bigbrog]

4 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Okay so do me a favor, read all 45 pages of the indictment, including the supporting evidence and testimony, and most importantly who that evidence and testimony came from, before ranting on me about being extreme and just buying into mainstream media, and then come back and let’s have a conversation. 
 

To clarify ‘hatred for trump’, just want to clarify that’s not at all accurate. First, I don’t have hatred period, there’s no benefit to it. I have concern, concern for what could happen to the US if someone who wants authoritative control succeeds in gaining it. Which leads me to the second piece, it’s not trump that interests me in the case, it’s a former president who, by the evidence and testimony of his own people seems to have attempted to overturn the election on multiple fronts, and thereby overthrow the government (I’ll keep it at seems to until there is a verdict). If you replace the name trump with Clinton or Obama or Biden, and everything else remains the same….the evidence, testimony, and who it derives from……my concern and interest in this case is exactly the same. 

Fair enough Rasta...I'll read the whole thing...enjoy sunny FL and your patio...still jeleous! 

[WrestlingRasta]

5 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Fair enough Rasta...I'll read the whole thing...enjoy sunny FL and your patio...still jeleous! 

The tides are turnin ‘round here my friend

[Wrestleknownothing]

For me among the most damning parts was the series of memos from Co-Conspirator 5 that the indictment refers to as Wisconsin Memo, Fraudulent Elector Memo, and Fraudulent Elector Instructions combined with deceiving the fraudulent electors into believing they were only being used as a contingency to preserve rights in case they won in court.

[Paul158]

48 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I’m talking specifically about this case. We could go on and on about the last seven years from both sides, but that’s already been done ad nauseum. I’m talking specifically about this case, how it is playing out in the courts of law and not how it’s playing out on Twitter. There’s plenty of spaces for that if you want to have those conversations. 

You are a smart guy. By chance ( prior to Jan. 6th ) do you know the 3 individuals who denied multiple requests for extra security because of the optics? They thought it would look bad to have a large presence of National Guard Soldiers already there early in the morning. They were more concerned about the optics not the security. If its ok with you I only want to discuss this one question. If you are not interested or do not know the answer that's fine.  Side note . I have never used twitter.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Paul158

[Wrestleknownothing]

44 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

OK. I said the democrat machine went after Trump 7 years ago. Even before he was sworn in. ( to be President). They have been going after him for 7 years now. So yes they were going after Trump before Jan. 6th.

That is the kind of background information that is typically used in the sentencing phase after a determination of guilty, not during the trial phase.