Another Round Of Trying To Forgive Loans

[Wrestleknownothing]

23 minutes ago, mspart said:

Isn't that the definition of a tax cut?   I pay x now, but I will be paying x-y  then.   So I get to keep my y amount of money.   I'm not clear on what you are saying here.   Of course it is my money if I get reduced rate or a credit that is not more than what I paid in.   That is the definition of a tax cut. 

mspart

Yes, but taxes are almost always a zero sum game. When taxes are cut there are three ways to finance that: lower spending (that has happened only six times since 1972), higher taxes elsewhere, and more borrowing. The latter two are tax increases spread across those who do not get a tax cut. The point being that taxes do not exist in a vacuum. So to claim his tax cut affects no one but himself while enforcing a contract is taking his money is disingenuous at best. 

I am against Biden's plan that got shot down by the Supreme Court. But that is absolutely not in any way, shape, or form, even remotely related to whether the federal government should honor a contract that they unilaterally created and signed.

[Husker_Du]

7 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Just don't understand it...

 

they promised it (to buy votes). so they have to try to make good on that. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

8 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

they promised it (to buy votes). so they have to try to make good on that. 

You guys crack me up.

If the politician you like makes promises, that is good policy.

If the politician you don't like makes promises, that is buying votes.

So sweet. So innocent. All policy is buying votes. All politicians do it.

Reminds me about the transfer debates that go on around here. When your team does it it is wrong. When my team does it it is smart.

[Husker_Du]

if you don't understand the difference with this issue...

jfc

[DJT]

12 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Reminds me about the transfer debates that go on around here. When your team does it it is wrong. When my team does it it is smart.

Sounding a bit like Black-n-Gold there… forget to sign into your other account?

[Paul158]

2 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Given that the law is clear on your debt with respect to taxes, it really is not your money even if it is tied to your employment. You may have earned it in a very real sense, but in doing so your incur a liability that you can not shake, so do not act like you are somehow more virtuous accepting a tax cut than a student is enforcing their rights according to the contract they signed.

A friend of mine use to say his kids' idea of sharing is "you give to me". You sound like one of his kids when you claim that a tax cut is getting your money back.

Really.  Are you saying that when I pay in 8000  dollars in taxes and government decided to give me back 1000 dollars is the same as a student who signs a contract for a 50,000 dollar loan  to go to college and gets it forgiven?,. Then the student graduates with a degree and now they are obligated to pay back the loan per the legal contract they signed. So the federal government forgiving  their 50,000 loan is comparable to a 1000 tax cut? Wow. Isn't that income redistribution on steroids?

Edited July 15, 2023 by Paul158
mis spelled a word

[DJT]

13 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

if you don't understand the difference with this issue...

jfc

To be fair, all those idiots who owe $130k for their Performance Art History degrees were going to vote for Biden, anyhow.

There certainly is a large difference between the student loan promise and other campaign promises. The promise of cancelling student loans targets a very specific voting block. If you want to compare it to running on tax reform, it would be like promising Californians that the federal government would pay their state income taxes for them.

[Wrestleknownothing]

5 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Really.  Are you saying that when I pay in 8000  dollars in taxes and government decided to give me back 1000 dollars is the same as a student who signs a contract for a 50,000 dollar loan  to go to college,. Then the student graduates with a degree and now they are obligated to pay back the loan per the legal contract they signed. So the federal government forgiving  their 50,000 loan is comparable to a 1000 tax cut? Wow. Isn't that income redistribution on steroids?

Nope , I am not saying that at all.

[Wrestleknownothing]

10 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

if you don't understand the difference with this issue...

jfc

"Reminds me of" <> "Same as"

Lighten up

[WrestlingRasta]

14 hours ago, DJT said:

I say “forgive” student loans, but they continue to accrue interest, and every tax return (including standard deduction/ rebates/ credits) for the borrower is withheld until the account is paid in full… seems equitable.

Why would you forgive the money they actually borrowed and only keep in the part that keeps making other people more money? 

[DJT]

26 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Why would you forgive the money they actually borrowed and only keep in the part that keeps making other people more money? 

By forgive, I meant just put the whole student loan balance into the individuals’ tax accounts (not the federal deficit) with the IRS, and they don’t receive any sort of refund until the tax account is settled. That account would accrue interest in the meantime.
 

I’d also propose doing the same with all student loans in the future. Why not use the existing “infrastructure” that we already have, shifting student loans to the IRS? It’s the taxpayers who are guaranteeing these loans, so it does follow for it to be in the IRS’s wheelhouse.

This method would also automatically implement an income driven repayment, and no college graduate will ever have to worry about a $200, $400, $600 monthly bill… they just won’t get that check of “free money” every spring to blow on shit they don’t need while bitching about not being able to pay their student loans.

[WrestlingRasta]

26 minutes ago, DJT said:

By forgive, I meant just put the whole student loan balance into the individuals’ tax accounts (not the federal deficit) with the IRS, and they don’t receive any sort of refund until the tax account is settled. That account would accrue interest in the meantime.
 

I’d also propose doing the same with all student loans in the future. Why not use the existing “infrastructure” that we already have, shifting student loans to the IRS? It’s the taxpayers who are guaranteeing these loans, so it does follow for it to be in the IRS’s wheelhouse.

This method would also automatically implement an income driven repayment, and no college graduate will ever have to worry about a $200, $400, $600 monthly bill… they just won’t get that check of “free money” every spring to blow on shit they don’t need while bitching about not being able to pay their student loans.

I almost thought you were writing a sincere post until you got to the last post. Are you providing us with your perception of those with student loans? Or someone particular you know that rubs you the wrong way?? I mean yeah there are some certainly irresponsible people out there, But really?

And what about those who have student loans, AND, don’t get refunds at the end of the year? How is your plan to manage those accounts, There are a lot of them….

And then finally, when MAGA breaks up and defunds the IRS….then what?

Edited July 15, 2023 by WrestlingRasta

[BobDole]

14 hours ago, mspart said:

I don't understand this.   They will not get their loan forgiven but the interest will?   So that is $48k of interest for each borrower?   That's a huge average loan.   I'm guessing with payouts averaging $48k, this is not just covering interest but principle  as well. 

That said, with a 30 year loan you can pay 2-3 times the principle in interest.   So maybe it is not a stretch but anyone taking out that kind of loan for a non paying degree doesn't deserve to have loan forgiveness.   Those that did get a paying degree, same.  Just my thoughts on this.  

mspart

Simple math for you

Student takes out $5,000 for 4 years in loans, nothing egregious or really that much in the grand scheme. That is $20,000 total in loans. If by YOUR calculations it's 2.5 times that in interest that is $50,000 which would be almost EXACTLY the $48,000 in forgiveness. Now we can go a little further and hint that if they have paid them for 20 years, like the forgiveness they are doing says, they likely owe less than the $50,000 in forgiveness they are saying they give you. Unless they will over compensate for that extra interest the borrower will only get forgiven what they owe now with a max of $50,000. 

If by YOUR OWN calculations it's $48,000 per borrower it only takes borrowing $5,000 per year for four years to get to that amount.

So in conclusion the number is inflated to 1. anger the Republicans and let them whine about free money and 2. get Joe Cool reelected so that the DEMONcrats ruin America more.

[DJT]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I almost thought you were writing a sincere post until you got to the last post. Are you providing us with your perception of those with student loans? Or someone particular you know that rubs you the wrong way?? I mean yeah there are some certainly irresponsible people out there, But really?

And what about those who have student loans, AND, don’t get refunds at the end of the year? How is your plan to manage those accounts, There are a lot of them….

And then finally, when MAGA breaks up and defunds the IRS….then what?

I actually am being sincere, though, I haven’t worked out every little detail, as this is a wrestling message board posting, not a public policy graduate thesis.

And, no, I don’t mean to just single out student loan borrowers for blowing tax returns, as most people are guilty of this. But the ones buying $65k Teslas because they have a $7k tax rebate, will be paying that rebate toward their loans.

As far as those without refunds, first, their exemptions would be set to zero, so they would inevitably have some amount “returnable”. The less they make, the less they’d owe, the less they’d pay toward their loan… much like the income driven repayment plans that already exist.

… and if the IRS was busy dealing with student loans, they won’t have as much time to target conservatives.

Edited July 15, 2023 by DJT

[BobDole]

1 hour ago, DJT said:

By forgive, I meant just put the whole student loan balance into the individuals’ tax accounts (not the federal deficit) with the IRS, and they don’t receive any sort of refund until the tax account is settled. That account would accrue interest in the meantime.
 

I’d also propose doing the same with all student loans in the future. Why not use the existing “infrastructure” that we already have, shifting student loans to the IRS? It’s the taxpayers who are guaranteeing these loans, so it does follow for it to be in the IRS’s wheelhouse.

This method would also automatically implement an income driven repayment, and no college graduate will ever have to worry about a $200, $400, $600 monthly bill… they just won’t get that check of “free money” every spring to blow on shit they don’t need while bitching about not being able to pay their student loans.

That's an easy one to get around, don't claim enough to get a refund and owe a little bit every year. Personally I like to claim enough to cover my taxes and would rather owe some than give the government a free loan every year.

[Scouts Honor]

12 hours ago, DJT said:

To be fair, all those idiots who owe $130k for their Performance Art History degrees were going to vote for Biden, anyhow.

 

if only that was the degree they got

[Scouts Honor]

i think what husker du is saying

biden made a promise that HE KNEW he could not keep.

[BobDole]

3 minutes ago, DJT said:

And, no, I don’t mean to just single out student loan borrowers for blowing tax returns, as most people are guilty of this. But the ones buying $65k Teslas because they have a $7k tax rebate, will be paying that rebate toward their loans.

LOL, now Elon wouldn't like that so no way it would pass with the right. 

I love how in your fantasy world every college grad has an Art History degree and blows their tax returns on Teslas. 

[Bigbrog]

1 hour ago, BobDole said:

LOL, now Elon wouldn't like that so no way it would pass with the right. 

I love how in your fantasy world every college grad has an Art History degree and blows their tax returns on Teslas. 

Once again...very disengenous....come on bob...he was using it as a point not as something to take literal...but you knew that and didn't have any other argument than what you wrote.

[BobDole]

58 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Once again...very disengenous....come on bob...he was using it as a point not as something to take literal...but you knew that and didn't have any other argument than what you wrote.

So are all these people that get the loan forgiveness only art history majors or something he doesn't deem a worthy major? I didn't see anything where this targets specific majors, but also haven't read much on it.

Maybe he should read the actual bill where it says these people have made payments for over 20 years on their loans. But of course that wouldn't be fun if we couldn't take jabs at art history majors now would it? 

[Le duke]

So, when Biden holds the federal government accountable, it’s bad.

When MAGA holds federal government accountable (which they’ve never done in any meaningful way re: law), that’s good.

Got it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Offthemat]

Using words like “all” and “never” is displaying your reluctance and mendacity. 

[DJT]

3 hours ago, BobDole said:

So are all these people that get the loan forgiveness only art history majors or something he doesn't deem a worthy major? I didn't see anything where this targets specific majors, but also haven't read much on it.

Maybe he should read the actual bill where it says these people have made payments for over 20 years on their loans. But of course that wouldn't be fun if we couldn't take jabs at art history majors now would it? 

First off, I said performance art history, sort of assuming it isn’t even a real degree. I should’ve just said under water basket weaving to be clear, I just meant a degree without a high enough earning potential to warrant $130k of debt.

Second, I have no idea about this loan forgiveness. If they are trying to address a government f’up, well, that’s a good thing. If they are doing creative accounting to make it appear there was an f’up (or cover more than the actual f’up), then that’s not a good thing. Again, I have read nothing about this. My “loan forgiveness” is more of a universal idea, aside from whatever the current thing is.

Third, I do think it is insane to loan someone as much money for an art history degree as for an engineering degree. There is a ridiculous amount of information out there (that the government has undoubtedly already collected), that could be analyzed to come up with some sort of lending algorithm. Base it off the median salary of holders of specific degrees and the country’s need/ the job outlook for people with those degrees.

[DJT]

6 hours ago, BobDole said:

That's an easy one to get around, don't claim enough to get a refund and owe a little bit every year. Personally I like to claim enough to cover my taxes and would rather owe some than give the government a free loan every year.

That’s where not allowing exemptions on the paycheck come into play. I agree with making sure you owe at the end of the year, though. 

Obviously, there are a lot of kinks to work out in the plan, which would be to address the exceptions (self-employed, business owners, etc.), not the majority of taxpayers. It’d be stupid to scrap any idea just because it wouldn’t work the same in every case 100% of the time. Start with the big picture and carve out caveats, not the other way around.

[Scouts Honor]

these people should learn to code i guess