2024 President Candidate Discussion

[Offthemat]

The acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree.  
And yes, they all had their ambitions at times. 
But I think I’ll vote for the guy who’s ex-wives won’t even talk bad about him.  

[Paul158]

45 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Are those guys trying to get on the ballot too? I missed that.

Know they aren't on the ballot but they just want to keep voting for as long as possible.

[WrestlingRasta]

54 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

The acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree.  
And yes, they all had their ambitions at times. 
But I think I’ll vote for the guy who’s ex-wives won’t even talk bad about him.  

Particularly the dead ex wife….she won’t say another word. 

[BobDole]

30 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Particularly the dead ex wife….she won’t say another word. 

Some people can talk(type) from beyond the grave. 

[Offthemat]

9 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Some people can talk(type) from beyond the grave. 

Not to mention vote democrat.  Why do they always vote democrat after they die?

[BobDole]

4 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Not to mention vote democrat.  Why do they always vote democrat after they die?

Since I might have a little experience here, God tells us to.

[VakAttack]

8 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Not to mention vote democrat.  Why do they always vote democrat after they die?

I'll take "things that almost never happen" for $1,600, Alex.

[WrestlingRasta]

14 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Not to mention vote democrat.  Why do they always vote democrat after they die?

Are you from michigan by chance? 

[Offthemat]

3 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Since I might have a little experience here, God tells us to.

You can’t fool me.  By the way, can you get viagra in hell?

6 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I'll take "things that almost  never happen" for $1,600, Alex.

It only happens for a short period during election years?

[Offthemat]

11 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Are you from michigan by chance? 

Never been there.  

[VakAttack]

9 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

You can’t fool me.  By the way, can you get viagra in hell?

It only happens for a short period during election years?

Has there ever been a "dead person voting" situation?  Sure, but they are extremely rare.

Has a dead person ever voted for a Democrat?  I'm sure it's happened, but again, exceedingly, exceedingly rare.

There is zero evidence of any sort of widespread voting fraud throughout the country.  It would be a stupid crime to commit with very little ROI.  It's relatively easy to detect, which is again why you don't it.  The boogeyman you're citing is a figment of your imagination.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

Quote

Studies Agree: Impersonation Fraud by Voters Very Rarely Happens

• The Brennan Center’s seminal report on this issue, The Truth About Voter Fraud, found that most reported incidents of voter fraud are actually traceable to other sources, such as clerical errors or bad data matching practices. The report reviewed elections that had been meticulously studied for voter fraud, and found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent. Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”
• A study published by a Columbia University political scientist tracked incidence rates for voter fraud for two years, and found that the rare fraud that was reported generally could be traced to “false claims by the loser of a close race, mischief and administrative or voter error.”
• A 2017 analysis published in The Washington Post concluded that there is no evidence to support Trump’s claim that Massachusetts residents were bused into New Hampshire to vote.
• A comprehensive 2014 study published in The Washington Post found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast. Even this tiny number is likely inflated, as the study’s author counted not just prosecutions or convictions, but any and all credible claims.
• Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found similarly negligible rates of impersonation fraud. The project found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000–2012. The follow-up study, which looked for fraud specifically in states where politicians have argued that fraud is a pernicious problem, found zero successful prosecutions for impersonation fraud in five states from 2012–2016.
• A review of the 2016 election found four documented cases of voter fraud. 
• Research into the 2016 election found no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
• A 2016 working paper concluded that the upper limit on double voting in the 2012 election was 0.02%. The paper noted that the incident rate was likely much lower, given audits conducted by the researchers showed that “many, if not all, of these apparent double votes could be a result of measurement error.”
• A 2014 paper concluded that “the likely percent of non-citizen voters in recent US elections is 0.”
• A 2014 nationwide study found “no evidence of widespread impersonation fraud” in the 2012 election.
• A 2014 study that examined impersonation fraud both at the polls and by mail ballot found zero instances in the jurisdictions studied.
• A 2014 study by the non-partisan Government Accountability Office, which reflected a literature review of the existing research on voter fraud, noted that the studies consistently found “few instances of in-person voter fraud.”
• While writing a 2012 book, a researcher went back 30 years to try to find an example of voter impersonation fraud determining the outcome of an election, but was unable to find even one.
• A 2012 study exhaustively pulled records from every state for all alleged election fraud, and found the overall fraud rate to be “infinitesimal” and impersonation fraud by voters at the polls to be the rarest fraud of all: only 10 cases alleged in 12 years. The same study found only 56 alleged cases of non-citizen voting, in 12 years.
• A 2012 assessment of Georgia’s 2006 election found “no evidence that election fraud was committed under the auspices of deceased registrants.”
• A 2011 study by the Republican National Lawyers Association found that, between 2000 and 2010, 21 states had 1 or 0 convictions for voter fraud or other kinds of voting irregularities.
• A 2010 book cataloguing reported incidents of voter fraud concluded that nearly all allegations turned out to be clerical errors or mistakes, not fraud.
• A 2009 analysis examined 12 states and found that fraud by voters was “very rare,” and also concluded that many of the cases that garnered media attention were ultimately unsubstantiated upon further review.
• Additional research on noncitizen voting can be found here: http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/analysis-noncitizen-voting-vanishingly-rare.
• Additional resources can be found here: https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/analysis-and-reports.

Courts Agree: Fraud by Voters at the Polls is Nearly Non-Existent

• The Fifth Circuit, in an opinion finding that Texas’s strict photo ID law is racially discriminatory, noted that there were “only two convictions for in-person voter impersonation fraud out of 20 million votes cast in the decade” before Texas passed its law.
• In its opinion striking down North Carolina’s omnibus restrictive election law —which included a voter ID requirement — as purposefully racially discriminatory, the Fourth Circuit noted that the state “failed to identify even a single individual who has ever been charged with committing in-person voter fraud in North Carolina.”
• A federal trial court in Wisconsin reviewing that state’s strict photo ID law found “that impersonation fraud — the type of fraud that voter ID is designed to prevent — is extremely rare” and “a truly isolated phenomenon that has not posed a significant threat to the integrity of Wisconsin’s elections.”
• Even the Supreme Court, in its opinion in Crawford upholding Indiana’s voter ID law, noted that the record in the case “contains no evidence of any [in-person voter impersonation] fraud actually occurring in Indiana at any time in its history.” Two of the jurists who weighed in on that case at the time — Republican-appointed former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens and conservative appellate court Judge Richard Posner — have since announced they regret their votes in favor of the law, with Judge Posner noting that strict photo ID laws are “now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”

Government Investigations Agree: Voter Fraud Is Rare

• Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a longtime proponent of voter suppression efforts, argued before state lawmakers that his office needed special power to prosecute voter fraud, because he knew of 100 such cases in his state. After being granted these powers, he has brought six such cases, of which only four have been successful. The secretary has also testified about his review of 84 million votes cast in 22 states, which yielded 14 instances of fraud referred for prosecution, which amounts to a 0.00000017 percent fraud rate.
• Texas lawmakers purported to pass its strict photo ID law to protect against voter fraud. Yet the chief law enforcement official in the state responsible for such prosecutions knew of only one conviction and one guilty plea that involved in-person voter fraud in all Texas elections from 2002 through 2014.
• A specialized United States Department of Justice unit formed with the goal of finding instances of federal election fraud examined the 2002 and 2004 federal elections, and were able to prove that 0.00000013 percent of ballots cast were fraudulent. There was no evidence that any of these incidents involved in-person impersonation fraud. Over a five year period, they found “no concerted effort to tilt the election.”
• An investigation in Colorado, in which the Secretary of State alleged 100 cases of voter fraud, yielded one conviction.
• In Maine, an investigation into 200 college students revealed no evidence of fraud. Shortly thereafter, an Elections Commission appointed by a Republican secretary of state found “there is little or no history in Maine of voter impersonation or identification fraud.” 
• In Florida, a criminal investigation into nine individuals who allegedly committed absentee ballot fraud led to all criminal charges being dismissed against all voters.
• In 2012, Florida Governor Rick Scott initiated an effort to remove non-citizen registrants from the state’s rolls. The state’s list of 182,000 alleged non-citizen registrants quickly dwindled to 198. Even this amended list contained many false positives, such as a WWII veteran born in Brooklyn. In the end, only 85 non-citizen registrants were identified and only one was convicted of fraud, out of a total of 12 million registered voters.
• In Iowa, a multi-year investigation into fraud led to just 27 prosecutions out of 1.6 million ballots cast. In 2014 the state issued a report on the investigation citing only six prosecutions.
• In Wisconsin, a task force charged 20 individuals with election crimes. The majority charged were individuals with prior criminal convictions, who are often caught up by confusing laws regarding restoration of their voting rights.
   

The verdict is in from every corner that voter fraud is sufficiently rare that it simply could not and does not happen at the rate even approaching that which would be required to “rig” an election. Electoral integrity is key to our democracy, and politicians who genuinely care about protecting our elections should focus not on phantom fraud concerns, but on those abuses that actually threaten election security.

As historians and election experts have catalogued, there is a long history in this country of racially suppressive voting measures — including poll taxes and all-white primaries — put in place under the guise of stopping voter fraud that wasn’t actually occurring in the first place. The surest way toward voting that is truly free, fair, and accessible is to know the facts in the face of such rhetoric.

 

[BobDole]

20 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

You can’t fool me.  By the way, can you get viagra in hell?

It only happens for a short period during election years?

I guess you don't believe all Republicans go to heaven then.

[BobDole]

8 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Has there ever been a "dead person voting" situation?  Sure, but they are extremely rare.

Has a dead person ever voted for a Democrat?  I'm sure it's happened, but again, exceedingly, exceedingly rare.

There is zero evidence of any sort of widespread voting fraud throughout the country.  It would be a stupid crime to commit with very little ROI.  It's relatively easy to detect, which is again why you don't it.  The boogeyman you're citing is a figment of your imagination.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

 

The easy answer to this is that since they are all Democrats they are way better at committing crimes. For instance see the Biden's, Clinton's, Obama's, etc. If these were Republicans illegally voting there would be a higher rate of conviction.

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

Has there ever been a "dead person voting" situation?  Sure, but they are extremely rare.

Has a dead person ever voted for a Democrat?  I'm sure it's happened, but again, exceedingly, exceedingly rare.

There is zero evidence of any sort of widespread voting fraud throughout the country.  It would be a stupid crime to commit with very little ROI.  It's relatively easy to detect, which is again why you don't it.  The boogeyman you're citing is a figment of your imagination.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

 

What about Smartmatic and the Venezuelans?  I don't see them anywhere in your fancy post!  You have to give all sides equal attention or it is just plain censorship.

[Paul158]

I'll take " who wished they had 81 million Legal Votes  in the last election"  for 1600 dollars Alex .

[Offthemat]

3 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Has there ever been a "dead person voting" situation?  Sure, but they are extremely rare.

Has a dead person ever voted for a Democrat?  I'm sure it's happened, but again, exceedingly, exceedingly rare.

There is zero evidence of any sort of widespread voting fraud throughout the country.  It would be a stupid crime to commit with very little ROI.  It's relatively easy to detect, which is again why you don't it.  The boogeyman you're citing is a figment of your imagination.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

 

I find your presentation inconclusive at best, moreover lazy and incompetent.  Any claim that requiring picture ID to be suppressive, egregious.  81 million votes, my ass.  

[Offthemat]

3 hours ago, BobDole said:

I guess you don't believe all Republicans go to heaven then.

Your voting record of late is anything but republican. 

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

What about Smartmatic and the Venezuelans?  I don't see them anywhere in your fancy post!  You have to give all sides equal attention or it is just plain censorship.

Good catch. 

[mspart]

I say Congress should pass a bill that disallows Bob Dole from voting anymore.   Him being an R, I would think Biden would sign that quickly.   He probably doesn't know Bob now votes D. 

mspart

[Scouts Honor]

this doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the system 

Government Accountability Office

In 2014, the Government Accountability Office, which describes itself as "an independent, nonpartisan agency that works for Congress," conducted a literature review of studies into in-person voter fraud.^[6] The review stated the following: "Five states provided us with investigative studies that focused on specific types of election fraud. ... The one study that included some information on allegations of in-person voter fraud examined instances of votes cast in the name of deceased persons in one state. It examined about 200 questioned votes that were cast in the November 2010 election and ultimately determined that all but 5 of the questioned votes could be attributed to errors by state or local officials—including clerical errors, data matching errors, errors in scanning voter registration forms, and the issuance of absentee ballots in the wrong name—or to applications for absentee ballots by voters who died before the election. For the remaining 5 allegations, the study could not conclusively determine whether in-person voter fraud occurred."^[7][8]

[Scouts Honor]

if it is occuring.. it could create waves

Pew Center on the States

The Pew Center on the States commissioned a study, released in 2012, to estimate the number of inaccurate or no longer valid voter registrations nationally. Among other things, the study concluded that there were an estimated 1.8 million deceased voters still on voter lists.^[9][10]

[Scouts Honor]

the real problem with our elections is ballot harvesting.

[DJT]

27 minutes ago, mspart said:

I say Congress should pass a bill that disallows Bob Dole from voting anymore.   Him being an R, I would think Biden would sign that quickly.   He probably doesn't know Bob now votes D. 

mspart

Biden would look around the room for five minutes asking where Bob was and asking him to come on up… then he’d talk about the time they went swimming and Bob made the hair on his legs stand up… then something about how he and Corn Pop scored some blow last week but lost it somewhere in the White House… then how Dr. Jill sent him to bed last night before his Tortinos were done baking but he snuck to the kitchen later and ate some ice cream. 

[Bigbrog]

I am not a conspiracy theorist but, in my opinion, we would all be pretty stupid to think that voting fraud doesn't happen more than we know.  Hell, there is cheating in every single thing people do in the US if there is a chance for financial gain, so why wouldn't there be cheating in regard to one of the biggest money and power grabs there is...the presidency of the United States?

[VakAttack]

16 hours ago, Offthemat said:

I find your presentation inconclusive at best, moreover lazy and incompetent.  Any claim that requiring picture ID to be suppressive, egregious.  81 million votes, my ass.  

Me:  Here's data with sources and studies.

You:  No, your data is stupid and also I don't enjoy the presentation.  I however will bring nothing outside of my opinion to the subject.

 

 

My dude, it's a wrestling forum, I'm not going to write you a dissertation, and as you've already displayed, it would be pointless because you would dismiss all of it immediately without any examination based off one piece of it that you don't like.  However, I understand, when you're extremely long and your opinion is not based on anything other than your political ideology, that almost has to be your default defense.