TWO PA STATE TROOPERS SHOT

[Offthemat]

You get deep into what this thread is evolving to and you’ll find that the majority of the perpetrators had been prescribed behavioral drugs, whether currently or previously.  Most were still themselves youthful, like the victims and perpetrators of inner city gang violence, which tends to go un-noted.  
 

As for the OP, it’s a clumsy attempt at criticizing those who point out that more people are beaten to death than killed by ALL rifles each year.  ALL, as in those that are and those that are not erroneously labeled. Whether this criticism extends to all private ownership of guns or expanding on red flag laws is unclear, though the reference to the NRA is insightful.  
 

Personally, I would rather see current gun laws enforced before writing any new ones. 
                   

[mspart]

We had homeless folks in Seattle throwing things off of bridges and damaging cars.   It was not good.  Those with damaged cars were lucky it was not worse. 

mspart

[BerniePragle]

4 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

So everyone knows this, but what are the solutions?  Other than the ole tired "Get Rid Of Guns" rhetoric.   

Readily available and cheap mental health programs for children and adults.  Makes it more "Ok" in our society and normal to talk about (but not force pills down people's throats).  Start getting our society to refocus the role of parents and on parenting skills.  Bring back some of the accountability norms for people and their actions...including how they behave on the internet.  Tell people to turn off their tv.  Demand our politicians work together!  Severe punishments for crimes that occur while in possession of guns.  I could go on but these are my some of my simple mind solutions. 

But I will say...my No. 1 thing that will help reduce tragic events like mass murder is PARENTING!!!  We need to change our culture around parenting and what their role is.  And we can start by holding parents accountable for the action of their kids!

I agree 100% with all this after the first paragraph. I did not say "Get rid of guns."  I said we need to get guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people. Exactly who determines who's unstable,  I'm honestly not sure. I would think psychiatrists, school administrators,  police, etc.   I also think a longer waiting period wouldn't be a huge imposition on our "law abiding gun owners ".

Everything else I agree with.  Certainly the bar for parenting has become very low.  I'm hoping that among the parents you would like to hold accountable would be Adam Lanza's mother, Dylan Roof's parents, etc, etc, etc.   In the first two cases here, not only did the parent(s) raise a POS, they provided the gun(s) used.   I'm absolutely certain that the NRA would oppose holding these parents accountable. 

I'm hoping you realize that the biggest obstacle to "our politicians working together" on this is the NRA's rating system for said politicians.  If a politician even hints at even any sensible limitations that would cut gun or ammo sales, he goes directly to the shit list and his career is effectively over.  It's truly sad to see company profits take precedent over the safety of (everyone can fill in the rest of this, since some find fault with whoever I would put in here).

https://www.nrapvf.org/grades/

[Bigbrog]

9 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

I agree 100% with all this after the first paragraph. I did not say "Get rid of guns."  I said we need to get guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people. Exactly who determines who's unstable,  I'm honestly not sure. I would think psychiatrists, school administrators,  police, etc.   I also think a longer waiting period wouldn't be a huge imposition on our "law abiding gun owners ".

Everything else I agree with.  Certainly the bar for parenting has become very low.  I'm hoping that among the parents you would like to hold accountable would be Adam Lanza's mother, Dylan Roof's parents, etc, etc, etc.   In the first two cases here, not only did the parent(s) raise a POS, they provided the gun(s) used.   I'm absolutely certain that the NRA would oppose holding these parents accountable. 

I'm hoping you realize that the biggest obstacle to "our politicians working together" on this is the NRA's rating system for said politicians.  If a politician even hints at even any sensible limitations that would cut gun or ammo sales, he goes directly to the shit list and his career is effectively over.  It's truly sad to see company profits take precedent over the safety of (everyone can fill in the rest of this, since some find fault with whoever I would put in here).

https://www.nrapvf.org/grades/

Just like most things...I'm sure most of us agree on 85-90% of things at the macro level...it's the minutia that trips everyone up.

Wanted to make some clarification on my thoughts on holding parents accountable...I was and am speaking of minor children.  Unfortunately, it would be nearly impossible to hold someone who is over 18 parent's accountable.  Unless, like you said, while he was 18 they provided the guns to the kid who committed the crime.

[mspart]

You can be prosecuted if a thief comes into your house and steals your gun and then uses it in another crime.    So the same would apply to the two examples given above. 

Around these parts, the first offense to be thrown out is the gun charge.   Yes, all the liberals want to limit guns and to make laws that punish people for using them in a crime.    And then the liberals refuse to prosecute rendering the law useless.   But defend yourself with a gun and they are all over you trying to get you shut down and in prison.   

mspart

Edited June 22, 2023 by mspart

[BerniePragle]

2 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Just like most things...I'm sure most of us agree on 85-90% of things at the macro level...it's the minutia that trips everyone up.

True.  As I often said in my work... Everyone wants to fly to Boston without an airplane,  they're just not sure how to do it.  Whether legalities or the laws of Physics, the devil's always in the details.  BUT, just as any endeavor,  unless one takes the first step, nothing happens.  And as has been the case for quite a while,  the NRA and their politicians will make sure that first step never happens.  

Again, if some of the past mass murders and crime statistics haven't changed anything,  this won't.  Some people and especially companies will not be satisfied until we are all carrying rocket launchers 24/7.

Bernie waving the white flag.  Uncle.

Edited June 22, 2023 by BerniePragle

[GreatWhiteNorth]

12 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

So everyone knows this, but what are the solutions?  Other than the ole tired "Get Rid Of Guns" rhetoric.   

Readily available and cheap mental health programs for children and adults.  Makes it more "Ok" in our society and normal to talk about (but not force pills down people's throats).  Start getting our society to refocus the role of parents and on parenting skills.  Bring back some of the accountability norms for people and their actions...including how they behave on the internet.  Tell people to turn off their tv.  Demand our politicians work together!  Severe punishments for crimes that occur while in possession of guns.  I could go on but these are my some of my simple mind solutions. 

But I will say...my No. 1 thing that will help reduce tragic events like mass murder is PARENTING!!!  We need to change our culture around parenting and what their role is.  And we can start by holding parents accountable for the action of their kids!

I do like some of the ideas you've put out:

• Parenting - Yes, accountability norms should be brought back. Children shouldn't be allowed to misbehave with parental support.
• Internet Behavior - Yes, accountability for bad behavior on the internet should exist.
• Gun Crime - Yes, more severe punishments for those that commit crimes with guns.
• Parenting x2 - Holding parents accountable for their kids' actions seems like a good idea.

The problem with these ideas is... Start an individual thread with each one, because each is so complicated that we couldn't possibly discuss all of them in the same thread with any semblance of order. It would be a mess.

Oh, and the second problem is that, once you've started individual threads - that nobody will participate in those discussions.

That may be the WORST of all the problems we face today. When we are actually able to dial it in to getting to solutions, people realize that participating is difficult and will take time and effort - and that they won't be able to cast around hurtful 'zingers' that give them immediate satisfaction (without accomplishing anything, of course.) And they'll pass.

None of our over-hyped social media lends itself to any type of problem solving. It isn't in the 'solution' game, it's squarely in the 'complaining' game.

Why so many young people seem to think its the future of communication isn't beyond me - it's because they are young, and don't know any better.