Pls explain the Freestyle rule that says …

[Dark Energy]

Bottom wrestler can’t grab a hand or foot / leg.  Just saw ref tell Desanto to release Fix’s leg.  So then it made it easy for Fix to get a gut.  
 

Seems like bottom guy can’t try to not get turned but he / she should try too hard or do something a normal person would try to do.

[Dark Energy]

Nolf just grabbed Dake’s leg as Dake attempted a gut.  That was allowed.  Stood back up. ????

[Perry]

I forget the exact wording of the rule but essentially you can't wrestle with an intent to stop action. So if the ref thinks you're reaching back for a leg on bottom to turtle up and prevent the top man from even working then you can be penalized. Desanto got in trouble for this in another match recently but I can't remember who it was against, sorry. Problem with FS is refs call so many things wildly different sometimes.

[Dark Energy]

Thanks for helping.  I’m still confused.  The no call vs Nolf for example, was exactly as you described.  But there are other situations where a wrestler ties stuff up to get a stalemate.  

[Dark Energy]

(Edit - wrong thread)

Edited June 11, 2023 by Dark Energy

[Scouts Honor]

13 hours ago, Perry said:

I forget the exact wording of the rule but essentially you can't wrestle with an intent to stop action. So if the ref thinks you're reaching back for a leg on bottom to turtle up and prevent the top man from even working then you can be penalized. Desanto got in trouble for this in another match recently but I can't remember who it was against, sorry. Problem with FS is refs call so many things wildly different sometimes.

funny you should mention turtle up

im happy for chance... great story and all... 

but he did a lot of turtling up

[Perry]

10 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

funny you should mention turtle up

im happy for chance... great story and all... 

but he did a lot of turtling up

My biggest issue with freestyle is the inconsistencies in rule enforcement. The ref you get assigned makes a bigger difference than it should. Look at grounding calls as another example. They'll give nick Lee a point for a grounded oob and then not call a much more intentional ground at the oob line in the next match. Gives the officials way too much power to determine matches. 

[LJB]

21 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Bottom wrestler can’t grab a hand or foot / leg.  Just saw ref tell Desanto to release Fix’s leg.  So then it made it easy for Fix to get a gut.  
 

Seems like bottom guy can’t try to not get turned but he / she should try too hard or do something a normal person would try to do.

While defending attacks and holds from the top wrestler in Greco Roman, the bottom wrestler is not allowed to place more than one of his hands on the opponent’s upper body (torso or any part of the opponent arms). Furthermore, the bottom wrestler must not defend with closed arm or block off with elbows and knees.

[wrestle87]

On 6/11/2023 at 9:31 PM, Perry said:

My biggest issue with freestyle is the inconsistencies in rule enforcement. The ref you get assigned makes a bigger difference than it should. Look at grounding calls as another example. They'll give nick Lee a point for a grounded oob and then not call a much more intentional ground at the oob line in the next match. Gives the officials way too much power to determine matches. 

Call me cynical, but I’d bet a whole lot of $$ the rules are intentionally crafted this way to allow for maximal artistic interpretation.  As far as I can tell, the US still isn’t all that influential in crafting the fabric of wrestling globally.  We sure do participate, but in terms of influence at a decision making level, seems minimal.  

For other countries, the ability to give opponents a good rogering when need be is meaningful and important.  The gray areas intentionally allow for wiggle room and crafting the outcome of close matches.  “I win at my home tournaments, you win at yours, see you at europeans and worlds.”

Case in point, enforcement of shot clocks in tandem with last score wins criteria allows refs to very much tip matches in someone’s favor, and holy heck do they love to leverage that ability.

[LJB]

the UWW rule book is written intentionally very grey so it can be translated to 200+ languages...

and it does allow for some definite "interpretation"  and there is no doubt there has been shenanigans in the past...

but, i watch more international wrestling than domestic and i can tell you the reffing is for the most part very consistent and fair...

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, LJB said:

the UWW rule book is written intentionally very grey so it can be translated to 200+ languages...

and it does allow for some definite "interpretation"  and there is no doubt there has been shenanigans in the past...

but, i watch more international wrestling than domestic and i can tell you the reffing is for the most part very consistent and fair...

 

wrong, wrong, wrong.

repeat after me, "ref screwed me"

[LJB]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

wrong, wrong, wrong.

repeat after me, "ref screwed me"

hey...

i have lost my shit saying that same thing...

but only domestically in my cases...

and i watch my kids wrestle internationally with some regularity...

never felt that way at those tourneys...

 

to be fair...

 i did see one of my "adopted" kids wrestle in croatia a couple of weeks ago and a ref did not do the correct thing procedurally and the match was not allowed to play out as UWW governance intends, but...

still nothing as horrible as i see at every tourney domestically...

[LJB]

the simulation is in full effect...

my second mom calls me this morning...

i have not talked to her in several weeks and defintely since U20 trials...

she opens up by asking if the younger boy made the team...

i tell her the story...

she says she was watching one of his matches on the youtubes (she would have no clue when this match took place or how it fits into the results) and she asked me if the refs were picking on the boy?

it was so bad that even someone with no (real) understanding of what she was watching was like this feels wrong...

again...

another aspect of USAW and no accountability in the organization and (possible) retaliatory actions...

[jackwebster]

What's the ruling about the situation where the bottom man tries to crawl forward in an attempt to scrape the top man's gut grip apart? Seems like was day-one par tarre instruction. Do you have to do it on the sly?

[LJB]

2 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

What's the ruling about the situation where the bottom man tries to crawl forward in an attempt to scrape the top man's gut grip apart? Seems like was day-one par tarre instruction. Do you have to do it on the sly?

on the sneak tip for sure...

absolutely no exaggerated movement and you better make every attempt to go off to one side...

almost saw a ref get killed recently because he called a guy for it and the coach was not happy...

the same ref that was giving that same coach the side eye the night before during an OEP...