1032004 Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 5 hours ago, Theo Brixton said: The dearth of high-caliber athletes is the most obvious impediment to American success in greco. It should come as little surprise that the great 2006 and 2007 teams which finished 3rd and 1st were loaded with legit former collegiate wrestlers that were talented enough to be on the freestyle ladder. Yeah, it is a good idea to focus American kids on Greco if you want them to have a better chance of domestic success since the participation is so low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 Literally no one chooses Greco for domestic success… Such a small minded way of thinking… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formally140 Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 3 hours ago, LJB said: Literally no one chooses Greco for domestic success… Such a small minded way of thinking… I know several that have. They just did it later when they knew they plateaued in the styles you dislike. Don’t worry. I not trying to change you or convince you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Formally140 said: I know several that have. They just did it later when they knew they plateaued in the styles you dislike. Don’t worry. I not trying to change you or convince you It would be useless to explain how that is not choosing and is in fact settling, so, I will not… the only thing I will say is that I love all my salty gals!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formally140 Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, LJB said: It would be useless to explain how that is not choosing and is in fact settling, so, I will not… the only thing I will say is that I love all my salty gals!!!! You’re better than the no true Scotsman fallacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 12 hours ago, Theo Brixton said: The dearth of high-caliber athletes is the most obvious impediment to American success in greco. It should come as little surprise that the great 2006 and 2007 teams which finished 3rd and 1st were loaded with legit former collegiate wrestlers that were talented enough to be on the freestyle ladder. Pretty good mix. Some were good enough athletes to succeed in other sports as well. United States of America (USA) Date Place Name Weight Rank 2007-09-17 Baku Betterman, Joseph Samuel 60.0 33. 2007-09-17 Baku Byers, Dremiel D. 120.0 3. 2007-09-17 Baku Dantzler, Thomas Curtis 74.0 22. 2007-09-17 Baku Durlacher, Lindsey 55.0 5. 2007-09-17 Baku Lester, Justin Harry 66.0 3. 2007-09-17 Baku Ruiz, Justin 96.0 13. 2007-09-17 Baku Vering, Bradley 84.0 2. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Byers, Dremiel D. 120.0 9. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Clark, Jake 84.0 12. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Dantzler, Thomas Curtis 74.0 5. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Durlacher, Lindsey 55.0 3. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Lester, Justin Harry 66.0 3. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Ruiz, Justin 96.0 12. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Warren, Joseph 60.0 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Brixton Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 9 hours ago, LJB said: Literally no one chooses Greco for domestic success… Such a small minded way of thinking… Categorically false and laughably so. And then you pull a crawdaddy when someone calls you out on it. Adorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 25 minutes ago, Theo Brixton said: Categorically false and laughably so. And then you pull a crawdaddy when someone calls you out on it. Adorable. There is no domestic glory… none… I still love my salty gal!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Brixton Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 3 hours ago, Plasmodium said: Pretty good mix. Some were good enough athletes to succeed in other sports as well. United States of America (USA) Date Place Name Weight Rank 2007-09-17 Baku Betterman, Joseph Samuel 60.0 33. 2007-09-17 Baku Byers, Dremiel D. 120.0 3. 2007-09-17 Baku Dantzler, Thomas Curtis 74.0 22. 2007-09-17 Baku Durlacher, Lindsey 55.0 5. 2007-09-17 Baku Lester, Justin Harry 66.0 3. 2007-09-17 Baku Ruiz, Justin 96.0 13. 2007-09-17 Baku Vering, Bradley 84.0 2. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Byers, Dremiel D. 120.0 9. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Clark, Jake 84.0 12. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Dantzler, Thomas Curtis 74.0 5. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Durlacher, Lindsey 55.0 3. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Lester, Justin Harry 66.0 3. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Ruiz, Justin 96.0 12. 2006-09-25 Guangzhou Warren, Joseph 60.0 1. Durlacher- NCAA runner-up Joe Warren- NCAA All-American Harry Lester- Bluest of blue chip recruits that decides to go greco TC Dantzler- 4x NCAA qualifier Brad Vering- NCAA Champ Jake Clark- great HS recruit that follows brother to the Marines after a year at UofM Ruiz- Blue chip recruit, NCAA All-American. I don't think he used up all his NCAA eligibility either. Byers- college football for a bit, overall stud Greco has a recruiting problem. Between freestyle RTCs and MMA, the second-tier wrestlers have options they didn't have 20-30 years ago. It also doesn't help that some elite clubs steer their kids away from greco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Theo Brixton said: Durlacher- NCAA runner-up Joe Warren- NCAA All-American Harry Lester- Bluest of blue chip recruits that decides to go greco TC Dantzler- 4x NCAA qualifier Brad Vering- NCAA Champ Jake Clark- great HS recruit that follows brother to the Marines after a year at UofM Ruiz- Blue chip recruit, NCAA All-American. I don't think he used up all his NCAA eligibility either. Byers- college football for a bit, overall stud Greco has a recruiting problem. Between freestyle RTCs and MMA, the second-tier wrestlers have options they didn't have 20-30 years ago. It also doesn't help that some elite clubs steer their kids away from greco. This is the real truth… a recruiting problem… was talking with a D1 coach at Vegas… I was giving him props because he had several guys who made some waves at U20 Greco… he made the comment he was a 3X Fargo Greco champ and did not get one call about Greco… it’s more a function of this country having no (years ago) to few (currently) real options for Greco… it’s not that we don’t have talented athletes that prefer the best style… just no/few options… it’s only the few outliers that say FU to the common path… and normals have an irrational fear of outliers… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 the other thing that is a real problem is that our governing body has done an absolute piss poor job at promoting greco... allocating resources to greco... supporting those who they hire to run greco... the absolute best thing for american greco would be for USAW to just give it to someone else to run and go do whatever it is they do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Energy Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 The real problem? The real problem is that it is boring to the vast number of American wrestling fans. And thus it gets very little love here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 Isn’t greco wrestling pretty much confined to kids whose parents have knowledge of it, interest in it, and enough time and money to train and compete in a club sport, that has little coverage or interest? It gets little coverage or interest at its highest level - the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 14 minutes ago, Offthemat said: Isn’t greco wrestling pretty much confined to kids whose parents have knowledge of it, interest in it, and enough time and money to train and compete in a club sport, that has little coverage or interest? It gets little coverage or interest at its highest level - the Olympics. Outside of this country it does just fine… it is more reminiscent of what wrestling actually started as… dive in on the legs on the battlefield and you are immediately dispatched… but… ’merica… fear… ignorance… sheepeople… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, LJB said: Outside of this country it does just fine… it is more reminiscent of what wrestling actually started as… dive in on the legs on the battlefield and you are immediately dispatched… but… ’merica… fear… ignorance… sheepeople… Then there’s the interest in MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Offthemat said: Then there’s the interest in MMA. I am unsure of what you are trying to get across… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 It’d be a good experiment to see if you could take 3-4 NFL defensive players and see if you could get them to be Olympic Champions in Greco inside of one cycle. Not to dismiss the intricacies of Greco, but I think it could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, DJT said: It’d be a good experiment to see if you could take 3-4 NFL defensive players and see if you could get them to be Olympic Champions in Greco inside of one cycle. Not to dismiss the intricacies of Greco, but I think it could be done. Take those same lineman and see if you do it in the women’s style… it would be considerably easier in the less popular style that is unquestionably less dependent on actual technique and more so of just being more athletic… particularly with the heavies… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, LJB said: Take those same lineman and see if you do it in the women’s style… it would be considerably easier in the less popular style that is unquestionably less dependent on actual technique and more so of just being more athletic… particularly with the heavies… You always confuse me on which is the less popular style and which takes more technique. It wouldn’t just be the heavies, but some of the defensive backs coming in at 175-190, smaller linebackers at 200-220. Their athleticism is otherworldly, even when compared to most (not all) elite wrestlers. But, yes, get an NFL player to identify as a woman, and he’ll.. er.. she’ll likely win the women’s gold in some form of Mortal Combat style victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, DJT said: You always confuse me on which is the less popular style and which takes more technique. It wouldn’t just be the heavies, but some of the defensive backs coming in at 175-190, smaller linebackers at 200-220. Their athleticism is otherworldly, even when compared to most (not all) elite wrestlers. But, yes, get an NFL player to identify as a woman, and he’ll.. er.. she’ll likely win the women’s gold in some form of Mortal Combat style victory. It’s really not that confusing if one actually understood wrestling… but… I do agree wrestling does not get the actual Uber athletes in America above 65kg that the other stick and ball sports do for all the obvious reasons… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, LJB said: It’s really not that confusing if one actually understood wrestling… but… I do agree wrestling does not get the actual Uber athletes in America above 65kg that the other stick and ball sports do for all the obvious reasons… Don’t get me wrong… I wrestled quite a bit of Greco, and I probably preferred wrestling Greco over free and definitely over folk. Wrestling as a whole is better for having Greco remain (ie not selling it out for more freestyle weights as most Americans would do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, DJT said: Don’t get me wrong… I wrestled quite a bit of Greco, and I probably preferred wrestling Greco over free and definitely over folk. Wrestling as a whole is better for having Greco remain (ie not selling it out for more freestyle weights as most Americans would do). I think we all can agree that both international styles a far, far superior to the stall fest… the only thing I will add is international Greco is almost as different to American “Greco” as night is to day… was watching a U20 tourney in Croatia this morning that a friends kid and my adopted Viking son were wrestling in… such a pleasure to watch both the wrestling and more importantly the REFFING as compared to the state tourney I dropped in on yesterday afternoon… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, LJB said: I think we all can agree that both international styles a far, far superior to the stall fest… But riding is an art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, DJT said: But riding is an art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 3 hours ago, LJB said: I am unsure of what you are trying to get across… If you’re talking about war when you’re outta bullets. And the way it gets promoted. It ain’t just for rich kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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