Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, 1032004 said: lol no one is saying that Fix is bad or that he isn’t world class. But is he not wrestling at the same level he was in the past? He may have finished second in the world but he also finished 4th in the NCAA. And I don’t want to hear any stallfest jokes because he can be a big staller at times I'm interested in the upcoming Desanto match. The last time they wrestled in folk, Daton wwrestled with his back to the edge quite a bit, if I remember. Based on how the two seem to be currently trending, I could maybe see Desanto getting over the hump and finally getting a win. I could also easily see Daton getting on top after a far ankle scramble and teching Desanto. Looking forward to a good match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formally140 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 1 hour ago, LJB said: it seems to me that anonymous internet nobodies really do not have any clue how hard wrestling really is... it seems to me that anonymous internet nobodies really do not have any clue how hard it is to even get a chance to represent your country internationally... it seems to me that anonymous internet nobodies really do not have any clue how big a deal it is to wrestle internationally with a USA on your chest... again... you guys are adorable... I’m well aware of how hard wrestling is. I’d honestly be willing to bet I have a much deeper and intimate understanding than you. In fact that understanding is why I don’t really hold it against Fix if that’s why he’s declined. If you don’t like what I’m saying fine. If you’re privy to inside info. cool. If you’re sensitive about it because of other things that have happened.. that’s on you. But don’t try to pull the “well you guys just weren’t high level enough to understand”. Especially you. Besides. If what the other poster said about watching Fix after his matches with his dad. That explains it better than any potential PED usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 30 minutes ago, Formally140 said: I’m well aware of how hard wrestling is. I’d honestly be willing to bet I have a much deeper and intimate understanding than you. In fact that understanding is why I don’t really hold it against Fix if that’s why he’s declined. If you don’t like what I’m saying fine. If you’re privy to inside info. cool. If you’re sensitive about it because of other things that have happened.. that’s on you. But don’t try to pull the “well you guys just weren’t high level enough to understand”. Especially you. Besides. If what the other poster said about watching Fix after his matches with his dad. That explains it better than any potential PED usage. still so salty... i have been around that family at tournaments for the last 12 years and i have never seen what was described... quite the opposite in fact... with that being said, i have lost my shit at very public tournaments as well, so, things happen at this level... we see daily here that people make up sh!t all the time to bolster their preferred opinions... you did it yesterday... and i don't think you are an idiot... but, there is a reason why eye witness testimony has been proven to be the absolute least reliable of evidence... and the simple fact of the matter is both of my sons have already represented this country internationally multiple times and both have medaled internationally (not at worlds) and that gives me a certain perspective that far outweighs most people on this planet... most anonymous internet ramblers hate to hear that, but, it is the absolute truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 2 hours ago, LJB said: has anyone who medaled at 50kg juniors ever medaled at any senior weight? Not sure if this is rhetorical but since you keep asking, there are many. Ali Reza Dabir, one of Iran's all time greats, is one. So is Golem Reza Mohammadi, another Iranian hammer. They must have about 10 senior medals between them, half gold. The great Armenian Mkrtchyan won a Jr Gold down at 46kg, Espoirs at 48 and went on to win multiple world medals. Another great, Anatoly Belaglazov won Jrs at under 50 and dang how many Sr world medals did he win? Not sure how many you want. I believe Cuban world gold medalist Garcia also had couple Jr Gold at 50kg and maybe another at an even lower weight, and Cuban Olympic medalist Monzon was Jr World gold at 46 or 50. A couple Koreans too, Kim Jon-Shin(?) won Jrs at 50kg and was a Sr. World champ the next year. A favorite of mine, Ukranian Mansurov, won Jrs at 50kg and won a couple Sr World titles. Suleman Atli, a Turk, is another recent example. I'm sure there are others. Obviously there's been some variations over the years in weights, ages and nomenclature. I'm not really following the Fix/Lee argument here and don't really care, but if the idea is 50kg is a weak weight, I would say that statistically there are/were probably fewer competitors there so that will impact its depth in relative terms, but I would have thought it pretty obvious that many 50kg (or lower) champion youths are going to naturally grow into the lightest Sr level weight class and excel there too. Which is what happens. Seems like a silly argument but whatever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) @BAC you have to go back to a time when senior weights were at 48kgs and only one weigh in 24hrs before competition i am not saying you are wrong, but, this how far back you have to go... there was a time that the average height of an american was 3 inches shorter than now and it still put them as the 3rd tallest people on this planet... point being... Edited May 25, 2023 by LJB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, LJB said: @BAC you have to go back to a time when senior weights were at 48kgs and only one weigh in 24hrs before competition i am not saying you are wrong, but, this how far back you have to go... there was a time that the average height of an american was 3 inches shorter than now and it still put them as the 3rd tallest people on this planet... point being... I don't get why you asked the question -- repeatedly -- if you were only to criticize the correct answer when you got it. What was the point of that? And no, I did not "have" to go that far back. I included some older examples since you didn't give a time limit, but most of the Sr. World medalists I mentioned post-date the dropping of the 48kg weight class in 1997 -- Dabir, Atli, Mansurov, Garcia etc. Why lie? Even of the pre-'97 examples, only Belaglazov (and maybe Shin) won Seniors at 48, and Belaglazov later won Seniors at a higher weight anyway. Not sure if you know who he and Dabir are but I promise you they didn't win because they were light -- they are P4P greats. Obviously there are no super-recent examples since they dropped the 50kg Jr weight after 2017, and since Lee won it in 2015 and 2016, you have to go earlier -- where examples are plentiful. Whatever, carry on with whatever meme-flinging argument you're having, but don't shoot the messenger. If you don't want to know the answer to a question, don't ask it. Edited May 25, 2023 by BAC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, BAC said: I don't get why you asked the question -- repeatedly -- if you were only to criticize the correct answer when you got it. What was the point of that? No, I did not "have" to go that far back. I included some older examples since you didn't give a time limit, but most of the Sr. World medalists I mentioned post-date the dropping of the 48kg weight class in 1997 -- Dabir, Atli, Mansurov, Garcia etc. Even of the pre-'97 examples, only Belaglazov (and maybe Shin) won at 48, and Belaglazov later won worlds at a higher weight anyway. Why the dishonesty? Obviously there are no super-recent examples since they dropped the 50kg Jr weight after 2017, and since Lee won it in 2015 and 2016, you have to go earlier -- where examples are plentiful. But you knew that when you asked the question right? Whatever, carry on with whatever meme-flinging argument you're having, but don't shoot the messenger. If you don't want to know the answer to a question, don't ask it. dishonesty? criticize the answer? i am doing neither... simply adding context... of course when there were senior weight classes below 50kg it stands to reason there have been competitors that won age level at lower weights... now, do i need to add in every qualifier for the past 100+ years? i am not going to do that... even if someone stomps their feet and gets all red in the face... but, to be 100% fair, i just went and looked and since it was a weight class from 2002-2017 which would be the only relevant examples... there has been one... Süleyman Atlı... he did it 2018 and 2019... which to be 100% fair, has been since it was a thing i actually looked for... i am definitely wrong... 1 person since it has been a relevant example has done it... you got me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formally140 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 1 hour ago, LJB said: still so salty... i have been around that family at tournaments for the last 12 years and i have never seen what was described... quite the opposite in fact... with that being said, i have lost my shit at very public tournaments as well, so, things happen at this level... we see daily here that people make up sh!t all the time to bolster their preferred opinions... you did it yesterday... and i don't think you are an idiot... but, there is a reason why eye witness testimony has been proven to be the absolute least reliable of evidence... and the simple fact of the matter is both of my sons have already represented this country internationally multiple times and both have medaled internationally (not at worlds) and that gives me a certain perspective that far outweighs most people on this planet... most anonymous internet ramblers hate to hear that, but, it is the absolute truth... If you want to raise your self esteem and to claim the macho aspect of being a wrestler through other people accomplishments. Do you I didn’t make up anything. I said what it looks like given the timeline and the realities behind PED use and “testing”. And what I see when I watch him wrestle. Especially because he wasn’t the same wrestler at 57kg after. Again, if you don’t like it. Fine. But you have a clear emotional investment in it that I don’t. Trying to claim expertise like a singers entourage doesn’t change that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Formally140 said: I’m well aware of how hard wrestling is. I’d honestly be willing to bet I have a much deeper and intimate understanding than you. In fact that understanding is why I don’t really hold it against Fix if that’s why he’s declined. Are you saying that Daton has declined to wrestle for true third? This is the only reference to that that I have seen on this thread, which is actually germane to the topic. I just looked at themat.com and it doesn't say anything about it. mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 12 minutes ago, Formally140 said: If you want to raise your self esteem and to claim the macho aspect of being a wrestler through other people accomplishments. Do you I didn’t make up anything. I said what it looks like given the timeline and the realities behind PED use and “testing”. And what I see when I watch him wrestle. Especially because he wasn’t the same wrestler at 57kg after. Again, if you don’t like it. Fine. But you have a clear emotional investment in it that I don’t. Trying to claim expertise like a singers entourage doesn’t change that. 15 minutes ago, Formally140 said: I watched you talk down Spencer’s world medals. Especially because it looked like he went the weight Fix wasn’t at. The difference this time is that it’s someone you have a bias for rather than against you 100% made up the above... not only have i never talked down his medals, bu,t he was 100% chased to 50kg juniors after losing to fix at 55kg cadets a month earlier... i don't have a bias or emotional investment or whatever buzz phrase you want to incorporate next in either one way or the other... i do not even watch them compete because watching the women's style makes me very annoyed anymore... neither fix nor lee has any bearing on my life at all... i have just been around them both for years and not just watched them on the computer or from the stands... and if you want to claim "entourage" by being the father of two multi time national champions and world team members than i will just chuckle at you a little more... i don't claim to be responsible for their accolades, but, to think it is an accident that both of my children are more decorated than 99% of the wrestlers on this planet is adorable... i get it... it kinda suks to be made to look foolish... but... i don't hold any ill will towards you either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, mspart said: Are you saying that Daton has declined to wrestle for true third? This is the only reference to that that I have seen on this thread, which is actually germane to the topic. I just looked at themat.com and it doesn't say anything about it. mspart he is clearly meaning "declined" in wrestling, which, he is not capable of actually quantifying... the only thing that can be 100% without question is that his results have declined in just over a year from previous heights that formally has only witnessed from afar... the rest is just typical anonymous peanut gallery stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) answered Edited May 25, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 So I take it by this that we will see Daton vs DeSanto at Final X. That will hopefully be a barburner of a match!! mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnwtwg Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 18 hours ago, Theo Brixton said: These are the deep insights I expect from someone who calls it the "women's style". Thanks. At least both Women’s teams bring home individual medals and team trophies. Can’t say the same about the style that chooses to remove half their offense and has a misogynistic sports dad as their cheerleader 1 1 i am an idiot on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 1 hour ago, bnwtwg said: At least both Women’s teams bring home individual medals and team trophies. Can’t say the same about the style that chooses to remove half their offense Another supporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 10 minutes ago, MPhillips said: Another supporter. My fan club just grows and grows… I love each and everyone if these salty little fellas!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Brixton Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 12 hours ago, LJB said: basic logic? you wrote the things i quoted... you pulled a crawdaddy when called out on it... then also used your own interpretation to claim things i said that i did not... again... adorable... and to be fair, i went back and looked at who fix beat in '21 because i did not watch it at all because by that time i was pretty much done with the women's style... he beat Harutyunyan in the semis... Paint yourself into a corner and gaslight out of it. Cute schtick. And you basically confirm that 2021 61 MFS was weak by WC standards. You're using the Armenian as evidence of the quality of the weight? A guy that only 1.5 months earlier was 0-1 at 57 kg with no prior Sr. accomplishments? Great insights. Keep em coming... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnwtwg Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, MPhillips said: Another supporter. Had my best success at greco across age groups. I’d still sell it out in a heartbeat if it means ten weights for MFS and WFS. Sorry *not sorry for having a personal opinion that it’s an inferior style due to limitations that I find as a competitor, coach, and spectator to be suboptimal. Edited May 26, 2023 by bnwtwg i am an idiot on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 12 minutes ago, Theo Brixton said: Paint yourself into a corner and gaslight out of it. Cute schtick. And you basically confirm that 2021 61 MFS was weak by WC standards. You're using the Armenian as evidence of the quality of the weight? A guy that only 1.5 months earlier was 0-1 at 57 kg with no prior Sr. accomplishments? Great insights. Keep em coming... same guy that won euros two months ago... you adorable little thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 1 minute ago, bnwtwg said: Had my best success at greco across age groups. I’d still sell it out in a heartbeat if it means ten weights for MFS and WFS. Sorry it sorry for having a personal opinion that it’s an inferior style due to limitations that I find as a competitor, coach, and spectator to be suboptimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 7 hours ago, LJB said: i don't claim to be responsible for their accolades, but, to think it is an accident that both of my children are more decorated than 99% of the wrestlers on this planet is adorable... Doesn’t claim to be responsible for their accolades But also claims to be responsible for their accolades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 1 minute ago, 1032004 said: Doesn’t claim to be responsible for their accolades But also claims to be responsible for their accolades you little fellas are so salty... average exists for a reason... i don't fault any of you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 7 hours ago, LJB said: you 100% made up the above... not only have i never talked down his medals, 14 hours ago, LJB said: it is a weight class that does not even exist and for a reason... Says he didn’t talk down Lee’s medals But also talked down Lee’s medals 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Says he didn’t talk down Lee’s medals But also talked down Lee’s medals you are awful at this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Brixton Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 28 minutes ago, LJB said: same guy that won euros two months ago... you adorable little thing... Too bad he couldn't do it at the varsity weight when it counted in 2021. It is unfortunate that 61 kg is a JV weight by world standards but this is the world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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