1032004 Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 What would be the harm in making a rule where you must break a hold in order to score more than once from it? I believe this may have even been a rule in FS at one point? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 It was a rule at one point. I don't really understand the leg lace hate. If you don't want to get laced, keep your ankles away from each other. People complain that the match can be ended with one move. This is true, but it is true in all wrestling. You're always one half nelson or one power half away from losing. Eventually, you figure out how to be less susceptible to those holds. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: It was a rule at one point. I don't really understand the leg lace hate. If you don't want to get laced, keep your ankles away from each other. People complain that the match can be ended with one move. This is true, but it is true in all wrestling. You're always one half nelson or one power half away from losing. Eventually, you figure out how to be less susceptible to those holds. I don’t hate the move, I hate that you can score 18 points with one move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshuck Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 You could see Arujau setting up the lace as soon as he got to DeSanto’s leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 48 minutes ago, 1032004 said: I don’t hate the move, I hate that you can score 18 points with one move. It is wild to think about when you put it like that. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipewrench Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 48 minutes ago, headshuck said: You could see Arujau setting up the lace as soon as he got to DeSanto’s leg. How Vito Arujau Teched DeSanto in 50 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 1 hour ago, 1032004 said: I don’t hate the move, I hate that you can score 18 points with one move. You can score zero points and end the match with a half nelson. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 1 hour ago, 1032004 said: I don’t hate the move, I hate that you can score 18 points with one move. You could even score 20! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: You can score zero points and end the match with a half nelson. Comparing to a pin is disingenuous, IMO. 1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: You could even score 20! Can you? Don’t you need a takedown (or reversal) first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le duke Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Can you? Don’t you need a takedown (or reversal) first?There’s a scenario where it *could* happen. Wrestler A scores 10 points but wrestler B is about to get a reversal when Wrestler A is injured. They’d put Wrestler A down and let Wrestler B go to work. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 hours ago, 1032004 said: I don’t hate the move, I hate that you can score 18 points with one move. But have you ever seen it and think about the beauty and skill of that to execute 9 turns while keeping it all in the circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 And people want college to switch to freestyle… A dual meet could be over in 15 minutes if all it takes is 1 takedown and 4 leg laces to end a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3 for LU Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Back in the day... similar to hooking up a leglace, one could lock up a trap-arm gut wrench do exactly what Vito did to DeSanto w/ the lace. That's when FILA changed up the rules that you could ONLY score ONCE w/ a particular technique. You had to then score w/ another technique to score again. Amazing how things changed... things come around full circle again. D3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocraTease Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 My personal view: cap the scoring at 4 points (2 turns) and put them back on their feet. Let's see more wrestling, not kids rolling around. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 27 minutes ago, D3 for LU said: Back in the day... similar to hooking up a leglace, one could lock up a trap-arm gut wrench do exactly what Vito did to DeSanto w/ the lace. That's when FILA changed up the rules that you could ONLY score ONCE w/ a particular technique. You had to then score w/ another technique to score again. Amazing how things changed... things come around full circle again. D3 Was there a reason they changed it back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: And people want college to switch to freestyle… A dual meet could be over in 15 minutes if all it takes is 1 takedown and 4 leg laces to end a match. Overall I think freestyle is more exciting, but it’s definitely not perfect: 1) this issue 2) seemingly arbitrary/rotating shot clocks 3) grounded I’m also not crazy about criteria but I understand the arguments for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3 for LU Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Was there a reason they changed it back? I really do not know exactly, but Gimp probably has an excellent explanation about that. D3 Edited April 30, 2023 by D3 for LU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 hours ago, 1032004 said: Was there a reason they changed it back? I'm pretty sure they changed it to one score and switch holds because of what Buxton did to me at Vegas. I'm not bitter. 2 Sponsored by INTERMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Meh, there is more than one way to end a match early. I kind of like it. It is rare to see the really good ones lose via lace but the possibility exists, which is a plus. Not disingenuous to compare it to pinning. Seems like FS rules allow pinning to finish matches but they don't do much to encourage it. Stark contrast to folk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted May 1, 2023 Author Share Posted May 1, 2023 10 hours ago, Plasmodium said: Meh, there is more than one way to end a match early. I kind of like it. It is rare to see the really good ones lose via lace but the possibility exists, which is a plus. Not disingenuous to compare it to pinning. Seems like FS rules allow pinning to finish matches but they don't do much to encourage it. Stark contrast to folk. I do think it’s odd how there is not much emphasis on pinning in freestyle. But pinning is rewarded by ending the match because it’s more difficult. That’s the whole point of the scoring system and why some moves are worth 4 etc. One turn with a leg lace is only worth 2, so it doesn’t seem right that you can score multiple times without letting go of the same move. I mean this is literally a rule in folkstyle (and apparently used to be a rule in freestyle) so it’s not like this is coming out of nowhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, 1032004 said: I do think it’s odd how there is not much emphasis on pinning in freestyle. But pinning is rewarded by ending the match because it’s more difficult. That’s the whole point of the scoring system and why some moves are worth 4 etc. One turn with a leg lace is only worth 2, so it doesn’t seem right that you can score multiple times without letting go of the same move. I mean this is literally a rule in folkstyle (and apparently used to be a rule in freestyle) so it’s not like this is coming out of nowhere. It is a rule in folkstyle? Strange! I seem to recall Jesse Jantzen scoring repeatedly with a crab ride + 1/2 and never coming out of the crab ride or the half. I also saw Mitch Clark score a Jacob's hook repeatedly on Vertus Jones without releasing his leg ride or crossface. Must have been some poor officiating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted May 1, 2023 Author Share Posted May 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: It is a rule in folkstyle? Strange! I seem to recall Jesse Jantzen scoring repeatedly with a crab ride + 1/2 and never coming out of the crab ride or the half. I also saw Mitch Clark score a Jacob's hook repeatedly on Vertus Jones without releasing his leg ride or crossface. Must have been some poor officiating! Yes it is. Probably missed calls if they happened like you describe? Those aren’t very recent examples… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Yes it is. Probably missed calls if they happened like you describe? Those aren’t very recent examples… Pretty high profile examples. One was NCAA finals, the other was repeatedly throughout a career. Doubt they were missed calls. What exactly is the folkstyle rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted May 1, 2023 Author Share Posted May 1, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Pretty high profile examples. One was NCAA finals, the other was repeatedly throughout a career. Doubt they were missed calls. What exactly is the folkstyle rule? For the NCAA currently: https://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/WR23.pdf Rule 4, Section 5, Article 2: ...The referee shall not signal the score for a near fall until the hold used to secure the near-fall criterion is completely released. Clark does release the crossface between each score. Edited May 1, 2023 by 1032004 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 1032004 said: For the NCAA: https://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/WR23.pdf Rule 4, Section 5, Article 2: ...The referee shall not signal the score for a near fall until the hold used to secure the near-fall criterion is completely released. Clark does release the crossface between each score. Thanks! Does he release the leg? Edited May 1, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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