Proposed college wrestling rule changes

[PencilNeck]

41 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I don’t think it changes anything in that regard. If you are up by 3, you are only up by one takedown… doesn’t really change if a td is 2 or 3 pts. They are making it harder to ride without turning with other new rules, so it would be harder for a wrestler to ride out for a win

It sort of devalues a reversal to a degree.

not sure on coupling this with the riding time proposal. Doesn't making it tougher to get riding time incentivize stalling on bottom? If nothing else, it encourages choosing down a tiny bit.

Edited April 20, 2023 by PencilNeck

[Scouts Honor]

14 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

I wasn't being rude.

It was just called the Iowa ride when I was competing.

wait, so cael did take something from iowa..

lol 

JK

[Gus]

13 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

Interesting… we called it the Oklahoma. Apparently, it’s an equal opportunity ride

And we called it a Navy ride.

[Scouts Honor]

13 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

Interesting… we called it the Oklahoma. Apparently, it’s an equal opportunity ride

we called it the sun devil 

[Scouts Honor]

5 minutes ago, Gus said:

And we called it a Navy ride.

hmmm, we had a navy ride, where you had a turk and the guy rolls away... so you pick up the other leg and elbow him in the ribs to keep his back exposed...

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, russelscout said:

3 point takedown is idiotic. You’ve now made it easier to get one takedown and ride out and sit on a lead.

 

true

[Gus]

2 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

hmmm, we had a navy ride, where you had a turk and the guy rolls away... so you pick up the other leg and elbow him in the ribs to keep his back exposed...

We called that one a low leg

[Scouts Honor]

56 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I don’t think it changes anything in that regard. If you are up by 3, you are only up by one takedown… doesn’t really change if a td is 2 or 3 pts. They are making it harder to ride without turning with other new rules, so it would be harder for a wrestler to ride out for a win

makes me work harder to ride the guy maybe... 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

42 minutes ago, PencilNeck said:

If nothing else, it encourages choosing down a tiny bit.

I thought the opposite.

My thjnking, earning a riding time point is now made harder, TD is 3, Reversal 3, Escape 1. 

Category 1: Wrestler is much better on their feet than earning nearfall - These wrestlers will never choose bottom again due to the incentive of 3 over 1 combined with risk of lost energy on bottom.  They may be more cognizant and willing to free release to avoid a reversal.

Category 2: Strong counter-wrestlers who are good at earning quick escapes or reversals - Continue to choose bottom.

Sure, there are more categories.  Regardless, I think the rules will lead to more and more starting wrestlers of Category 1.

I expect trends may be a decline in the number of reversals along with a further reduction in nearfall points, as emphasis on mat skills may further decline.  Possibly the 3-pt nearfall was proposed to make it harder to notice this anticipated decline.

Maybe dual and tournament scoring will need to value falls a little bit more than tech falls before it is all over, if it is important to bolster an emphasis on mat wrestling.

Edited April 20, 2023 by 98lberEating2Lunches

[Eagle26]

It sort of devalues a reversal to a degree.
not sure on coupling this with the riding time proposal. Doesn't making it tougher to get riding time incentivize stalling on bottom? If nothing else, it encourages choosing down a tiny bit.

Yeah the only issue I see with a three point td and 2 pt reversal is that and escape and a td is now worth 4 pts and a reversal is only 2. There are some situations where those look almost identical and it’s a tough call to make if it should be a reversal or not… now that’s a two point difference which is huge

[jchapman]

If these rules go through, then they should just eliminate riding time as well.  It will make it much easier to follow and understand during matches.  Sure, the few die-hards will get it, but image a causal fan or even the typical table worker at a dual will see it as complicated. Not sure the reward of one point at the end of a match will be worth the "effort" to keep track of the situation.

[davenowa]

some great attempts to improve the sport.  would still love to see action incentivized by incorporating some form of "margin of victory" scoring, and coupled with prioritizing duals, maybe we can keep the current fans (and perhaps even pick up a few newbies like the baseball changes have done).

[Mike Parrish]

Eliminate riding time and add the pushout.

[Le duke]

Why was the FRL crew talking about these proposed rules as if they are actually in effect?


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[Dogbone]

I am fine with the 3 pt TD, I don't think it will change much as far as how the product on the mat looks but the scores will look different.  More bonus points and the potential for greater comebacks if someone gases.  Maybe a guy like Nagao could be impacted a little, but they can still choose top and get turns. 

RT point. I think the goal was to disincentives guys from just riding to ride not to incentives guys to turn.   Current mat wrestling is a terrible product to watch (and I like mat wrestling) so something needs to be done.  It seems simpler to just require Top to have to work for a turn and CALL STALLING, but probably minimal impact and maybe the ankle riders will just cut Bottom now. 

2 pt, 3 pt, and 4pt NF.  Makes sense and is easier for causal fans to follow. 

Overall, a good set of proposed rule changes.

 

[PencilNeck]

another observation about 3-point takedown were it to be approved. I don't think it would impact too many match outcomes W or L, but it certainly will make it easier to score a major decision, which I think is a good thing for duals. Currently to get a major, it's a takes quite a bit of work, but with 3 for a TD, I'm thinking you could have a major from a match that looks much closer that it would have in the past.

 

edit: oops, looks like this point was already made but i hadn't read the reply above before submitting!

Edited April 20, 2023 by PencilNeck

[Scouts Honor]

reversal will be 3 as well? 

[forkemaz]

3 hours ago, Fletcher said:

Do they ever try out these rules in live exhibition matches or tournaments? Seems silly to change the rules without first having an opportunity to see how they would operate in a real live match.

Sometimes ideas that seem great on paper have unintended consequences that you only see in a real world situation.

Yeah it's Insane they don't run a few opens in summer as a trial. It's free data

[dragit]

7 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

Most of it now is just scanning results and going back to watch specific bouts that were eye-catching … when given a more exciting sports option, wrestling is going to have to do more things. And I love wrestling.

True - that's a bad sign.  I made that transition in the last few years, too, and I would guess that others have as well.  

[CHROMEBIRD]

7 hours ago, Jason Bryant said:

I hate to sound like a Debbie Downer here, but you guys know this is my life … I will watch every level, every style and it’s to the point where if there’s a college hockey game on, I’ll watch that over most duals except the big ones. As a consumer on my own time, I want to also be entertained. I’m not actively reporting on things as they happen anymore so what am I watching in my free time? It’s becoming increasingly hard to just have wrestling on and be engaged in a lot of the product. Most of it now is just scanning results and going back to watch specific bouts that were eye-catching … when given a more exciting sports option, wrestling is going to have to do more things. And I love wrestling.

I will lose some serious fan points for this, but unless I'm tuning in to something specific the perfect way to watch matches on Youtube is with the playback speed on 1.25 (sometimes 1.5). 

[Scouts Honor]

question:

will the 3 point takedown make wrestlers more cautious?

if i screw this shot up... or he has great defense/scramble ability/defensive counters... i dont want go down 3-0 

[JeanGuy]

I hate anything that makes reffing more subjective. I know the whole stalling thing is that way. Reversals are in a weird spot. I think it is harder to score a reversal than an escape and takedown but you are better off with an escape then a takedown.

I would like to see the Warner ride addressed. I series of 15 second rides with push outs should not be awarded with a point, but then you are back to is it a push out or the bottom guy running out. Either way too many restarts.

I would like to see mat wrestling remain but I am not sure how you can have it and have it regulated correctly.

[forkemaz]

7 hours ago, JeanGuy said:

I hate anything that makes reffing more subjective. I know the whole stalling thing is that way. Reversals are in a weird spot. I think it is harder to score a reversal than an escape and takedown but you are better off with an escape then a takedown.

I would like to see the Warner ride addressed. I series of 15 second rides with push outs should not be awarded with a point, but then you are back to is it a push out or the bottom guy running out. Either way too many restarts.

I would like to see mat wrestling remain but I am not sure how you can have it and have it regulated correctly.

One way to incentivize  good top wrestling and still do the three point takedown AND still remove the riding point is to give 2-5 points for a turn 1 point per swipe. Makes turning still the highest scoring option. Highest value to nearfall as its nearest a pin (duh), followed by a takedown at 3, followed by a reversal at 2, followed by an escape and violations at 1. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by forkemaz

[billyhoyle]

8 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

question:

will the 3 point takedown make wrestlers more cautious?

if i screw this shot up... or he has great defense/scramble ability/defensive counters... i dont want go down 3-0 

No.  You are still 1 takedown away from tying the score. 

[PencilNeck]

(Effectively) Taking away riding time just encourages stalling on bottom.