How should the IOC treat individual Russian and Belarusian athletes at the 2024 Olympics?

[peanut]

How should the IOC treat individual Russian and Belarusian athletes at the 2024 Olympics? It's a tough decision to make.

In January, the IOC outlined a multi-step plan for individual Russian and Belarusian athletes to participate under a neutral flag. (In team sports like basketball, individual athletes would remain banned.)

However, Ukraine has already threatened a boycott if individual Russian and Belarusian athletes are allowed to participate, and Latvia has suggested it would do the same. Moreover, the US and over 30 other countries have criticized the plan to allow individual Russian and Belarusian athletes to compete.

 

[Ragu]

Firm believer in if you want to be the best beat the best. Without Russia, winning a gold seems cheap

Edited March 31, 2023 by Ragu
Punctuation

[LJB]

27 minutes ago, Ragu said:

Firm believer in if you want to be the best beat the best. Without Russia, winning a gold seems cheap

while i totally get and respect the sentiment...

no one who wrestles should want anyone to not be there...

but...

if so, it does not cheapen the accomplishment at all...

you can only wrestle who shows up and if on that day you beat everyone who shows up then there is no stupid fukn asterisk attached to it...

still...

no athlete should be held responsible for their governments actions and i am so thankful i live in a country where me and mine do not have to worry about that and i am equally as empathetic to any athlete that had the misfortune to be born in a country that is not the case...

because if the powers that be looked at this stuff without being influenced by the usual pathetic BS, then that would not be the case and no american athlete would be allowed to compete...

which would be a travishamockery...

[Ragu]

More fun with better wrestlers. Let them go

[Curt Foley]

No one should care one bit what the Ukrainian leader does with his athletes.  I say let the Russians compete and if Ukraine stays at home, so be it.  Tired of hearing what Ukraine wants, needs, dictates.   They have phenomenal athletes so it would be a shame but the rest of the world should not punish the Russian athletes for the Ukrainian decision. 

[MPhillips]

4 hours ago, Curt Foley said:

Tired of hearing what Ukraine wants, needs, dictates. 

Those pesky Ukrainians fighting for their lives and country...

[GreatWhiteNorth]

This situation is solely the responsible of the Russian government. To blame anyone else is nonsense. Any "punishment" for any athlete is 100% caused by Russia.

Show me a Russian individual athlete who publicly, openly, and whole heartedly condemns the ongoing one-sided Russian attack on Ukraine.

Then, perhaps, an exception could be provided. Until then - they should be NOT allowed to compete.

If the Russian athletes must fight their own country in order to compete - that is how it must be. It is their choice to be Russian citizens, they must live with that choice and the responsibility associated with it. It is the responsibility of nobody else.

Edited April 1, 2023 by GreatWhiteNorth

[LJB]

@GreatWhiteNorth

have you really spent any time looking into how Zelenskyy came into his position or how many United Nations treaties were violated before this skirmish started a year ago?

because if you have then you might not be so bullish in your opinions…

[scourge165]

7 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

This situation is solely the responsible of the Russian government. To blame anyone else is nonsense. Any "punishment" for any athlete is 100% caused by Russia.

Show me a Russian individual athlete who publicly, openly, and whole heartedly condemns the ongoing one-sided Russian attack on Ukraine.

Then, perhaps, an exception could be provided. Until then - they should be NOT allowed to compete.

If the Russian athletes must fight their own country in order to compete - that is how it must be. It is their choice to be Russian citizens, they must live with that choice and the responsibility associated with it. It is the responsibility of nobody else.

That sounds great...and I have a great deal of respect for Navid Afkari, I think asking someone else to do that is...just asking too much. 

This isn't like protesting in the US(obviously, I know you know this).

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Just now, LJB said:

@GreatWhiteNorth

have you really spent any time looking into how Zelenskyy came into his position or how many United Nations treaties were violated before this skirmish started a year ago?

because if you have then you might not be so bullish in your opinions…

It didn't start a year ago, sport. Crimea was invaded nearly 10 years ago. This is not new. What's new is that the bar has been moved up many notches. The escalation is the problem.

The world finds itself in a difficult spot right now. Not insurmountable, but not great. 

At this point we have exactly (1) country that is the cause of this murderous attack. One.

To turn a blind eye and allow Russian individual athletes to participate as if Russia isn't causing great damage to the rest of the world would be wrong.

I empathize with Russian athletes. Just as I did with US Athletes when the US boycotted the Olympics previously. But being a citizen of any country has its responsibilities.

[LJB]

1 minute ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

It didn't start a year ago, sport. Crimea was invaded nearly 10 years ago. This is not new. What's new is that the bar has been moved up many notches. The escalation is the problem.

The world finds itself in a difficult spot right now. Not insurmountable, but not great. 

At this point we have exactly (1) country that is the cause of this murderous attack. One.

To turn a blind eye and allow Russian individual athletes to participate as if Russia isn't causing great damage to the rest of the world would be wrong.

I empathize with Russian athletes. Just as I did with US Athletes when the US boycotted the Olympics previously. But being a citizen of any country has its responsibilities.

Who helped Zelenskyy get into power?

[BAC]

5 hours ago, LJB said:

@GreatWhiteNorth

have you really spent any time looking into how Zelenskyy came into his position or how many United Nations treaties were violated before this skirmish started a year ago?

because if you have then you might not be so bullish in your opinions…

I’ll play! I’m going to go with:  (1) he was democratically elected, and (2) none.

What do I win?

[BAC]

5 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

This situation is solely the responsible of the Russian government. To blame anyone else is nonsense. Any "punishment" for any athlete is 100% caused by Russia.

Show me a Russian individual athlete who publicly, openly, and whole heartedly condemns the ongoing one-sided Russian attack on Ukraine.

Then, perhaps, an exception could be provided. Until then - they should be NOT allowed to compete.

If the Russian athletes must fight their own country in order to compete - that is how it must be. It is their choice to be Russian citizens, they must live with that choice and the responsibility associated with it. It is the responsibility of nobody else.

This post has it correct.

I can get behind a rule that says if you attach another country to take their internationally recognized territory, you can’t compete in the Olympics. Period.

Or would you have invited Hitler to an Olympics while he was marching across Europe?

Yes there are lots of wars and skirmishes, and it is hard to say which ones are right and justified and which are not. So usually Olympic neutrality makes sense. But disinviting countries that are warring for the sole sake of land stealing seems like a pretty objectively neutral principle we can all get behind.

It also puts the pressure where it should be: on Russian and Belorussian athletes against their government, demanding adherence to the international order, not on Ukrainians, by forcing those few Ukrainians who are dead or in active military service to share an “Olympic moment” with their attackers.

I do agree it makes sense to create an exception for dissidents. And it should be coupled with an offer of asylum by participating Olympic countries — since we all know publicly disagreeing with the war is a crime in Russia.

Can you imagine that visual?  Say a half dozen dissidents, all under an Olympic/Russian flag, war opponents all, competing for the pride of the Russian motherland, but most certainly not for its government? That is the stuff that inspires revolutions.

It is shameful to see the Tucker Carlson lemmings coming out of the woodwork, parroting his pro-Putin propaganda. Are you going to tell us Zelensky is a Nazi sympathizer and Putin was just trying to stop him from genocide? LOL. 

This is not that difficult. Russia out, Russian dissidents in. 

[BAC]

On 3/30/2023 at 11:52 PM, Ragu said:

Firm believer in if you want to be the best beat the best. Without Russia, winning a gold seems cheap

So… if instead Ukraine has invaded Russia for the sole purpose of increasing Ukrainian territory, you would be fine with banning Ukraine to avoid a Russian boycott? 

Do whatever is necessary to appease Russia to ensure they attend.

Sounds principled to me. 

[MPhillips]

6 hours ago, BAC said:

Or would you have invited Hitler to an Olympics while he was marching across Europe?

 Hitler had is own Olympics.  He sent the invites.

[LJB]

7 hours ago, BAC said:

I’ll play! I’m going to go with:  (1) he was democratically elected, and (2) none.

What do I win?

being wrong doesn't get you anything except...

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, MPhillips said:

 Hitler had is own Olympics.  He sent the invites.

Yeah, but we went over there to make sure he wasn't gonna be really mean to the Jews first!

 

[LJB]

[scourge165]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:52 PM, Ragu said:

Firm believer in if you want to be the best beat the best. Without Russia, winning a gold seems cheap

I agree...It'd be similar to '84 when we dominated the Olympic games, but I believe only Shultz won a WC the year before or after. That's not why I think the Russian athletes should be in though.

It shouldn't be about the product of the Olympics. 

[Curt Foley]

9 hours ago, BAC said:

So… if instead Ukraine has invaded Russia for the sole purpose of increasing Ukrainian territory, you would be fine with banning Ukraine to avoid a Russian boycott? 

Do whatever is necessary to appease Russia to ensure they attend.

Sounds principled to me. 

Do a little history.  Study first the Cuban missle crisis, then the fake Minsk agreement and move on to NATO parking at Russias door, Ukrainian corruption, the Ukraining atrocities toward Russian speaking citizens of the Donbas region. I am sure a detailed, objective look at the situation (with the help of history and without the media's account) and you will come to an appreciation of Putin's absolute restraint concerning this issue.  So yes, reward Russian athletes by letting them compete.  It's the principled thing to do!

Edited April 1, 2023 by Curt Foley

[LJB]

3 minutes ago, Curt Foley said:

Do a little history.  Study first the Cuban missle crisis, then the fake Minsk agreement and move on to NATO parking at Russias door, Ukrainian corruption, the Ukraining atrocities toward Russian speaking citizens of the Donbas region. I am sure a detailed, objective look at the situation (with the help of history and without the media's account) and you will come to an appreciation of Putin's absolute restraint concerning this issue.  

while i am not going to comment on any restraint...

the situation is not as cut and dried as the mouth breathers who listen to their TVs will ever even attempt to understand...

and the US played a part (as per) in all of it...

again...

thankfully...

the US does not have to abide the same rules/expectations as some others...

[Le duke]

Do a little history.  Study first the Cuban missle crisis, then the fake Minsk agreement and move on to NATO parking at Russias door, Ukrainian corruption, the Ukraining atrocities toward Russian speaking citizens of the Donbas region. I am sure a detailed, objective look at the situation (with the help of history and without the media's account) and you will come to an appreciation of Putin's absolute restraint concerning this issue.  So yes, reward Russian athletes by letting them compete.  It's the principled thing to do!

Tell me, where did you learn about the alleged Ukrainian atrocities in Donbas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MPhillips]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah, but we went over there to make sure he wasn't gonna be really mean to the Jews first!

 

"With the conclusion of the Games, Germany's expansionist policies and the persecution of Jews and other "enemies of the state" accelerated, culminating in World War II and the Holocaust."

Flat Earther?

[LJB]

we all should be given the chance to figure it out...

but...

 

[billyhoyle]

I want to see the Russian athletes compete in the olympics-it is really a tarnished event if they don't..But they can't be allowed to compete given what is happening. It would not be fair to the Ukrainians.

 

Hopefully the war ends soon (with Russia either deciding to bring their soldiers back home or getting defeated on the battlefield) and we can go back to seeing the best athletes in the world on the biggest stage. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by billyhoyle