Grand Jury votes to indict Trump

[Plasmodium]

This is unbelievable.  A practicing lawyer is dismissed as a blow hard.   During a legal discussion!  And by someone who is comically convinced hurricanes are the cause of insurance collapse!

[GreatWhiteNorth]

3 hours ago, mspart said:

Well, when democrats push gender affirming drugs and surgeries for minors, and grooming them to think this is a wonderful idea, that is certainly not leading with kindness, do you agree? 

That is what the issue was with DeSantis and the so called Dont say gay bill.   Never did the bill say anything about gay.  What it said was there will be no teaching of sex, sexuality, or gender in classes K-3.   And that was the most horrible thing in the world to the D's.   Why is that, I'm sure you are asking.   Well, because that is called in other realms of thought, grooming.   We are indoctrinating the kids to think they can change their gender and this by the state.   This is not parents' call, strictly the State's call.   Well now it isn't the State's call and how sad is that?   Very sad from the Disney and D hubbub that this created. 

Since when are minors capable of making life long decisions?   Since never.   Yet, we tell them they can't drive, they can't drink, they can't own a house, they can't buy a gun, but by golly, they can take puberty blocking drugs that will affect them the rest of their lives and they can cut their breasts off and testicles and penis off and this will affect them the rest of their lives.   Do you not see a problem here?   That is why she said what she said.   It is not rocket science unless you are fully into the  idea that minors are fully intellectually able to make these kinds of decisions.   If they can for that, then these same people should be pushing them to drive cars and buy guns at age 11.   Of course no sane adult would do that, yet insane adults are clamoring for grooming kids in school to have them change their gender.   

One more thing, is that there is no changing one's gender.   You are what you are.   There is no changing that.   You can cut off and plug up and extract what you will but that does not change your gender.   Your choromosomes still tell the truth. 

If  a minor wants to change their sex, they can make that decision when they are an adult, but preying on minors for this purpose is ghastly and evil.  Just my $0.02. 

mspart

Except for the HUGE mistake you're making here... you're being sold a line of crap. 

Many Democrats agree with you on this topic. In my experience, easily the majority of democrats agree with you.

I had a very similar discussion many times, too many times actually, not too long ago.

Many Democrats agree that defunding the police is a terrible idea. In my experience, easily the majority.

Why are you being sold a line of BS about democrats? Check your source and rethink how much you trust them.
 

We're being played - by people who want us to take sides against each other. Even though we, for the most part, agree. The worst part about it is that it's plain, obvious, and yet still working.

 

[VakAttack]

2 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

LOL is right...you have lost all respect.  "Again, I am a lawyer" is your response...wow.  I don't give a rat's ass if you are a triple PhD in astrophysics, political science, and neuro medicine.  But keep on with your "I am a lawyer" b.s. bud...do you want us all to bow down or some crap and take your word for it because you are good at memorizing stuff and live in FL???  Guess you are the only one who lives in FL and you speak the only truth for all the residents there.     Geeze...get over yourself. 

Anyway, as I thought...you can't answer the questions.

You're not asking legitimate questions where you want answers, because you are precluding any answers that don't conform with what you already believe, and damning sources before you even know what they say.  And I'm not asking anyone to bow down to me on the general subject of life, astrophysics, or neuro medicine, but when it comes to the idea of laws in the State of Florida, yes, you would probably want to defer to a lawyer who practices in Florida on the subject.  But keep on reveling in your obtuseness.  Imagine me coming into whatever your job is and lecturing you on it.

[VakAttack]

4 hours ago, mspart said:

Well, when democrats push gender affirming drugs and surgeries for minors, and grooming them to think this is a wonderful idea, that is certainly not leading with kindness, do you agree? 

Three things: 

1. He's the one who talked about Republicans playing too nice.

2.  I'm going to need to see you show me some great movement of areas where Democrats are PUSHING gender affirming drugs and/or surgeries on minors, as opposed to simply stating that the government shouldn't be enforcing their beliefs on parents who want to have this care for their children.  Do the parents have a say in their child's medical choices ONLY when it conforms with what conservative dogma believes?  Isn't the idea of small governmen that the government shouldn't be involved in individual choices?

3.  None that gets by the idea of:  that's not pedophilia.  Pedophilia means you want to have sex with children.  She is accusing Democrats of wanting to have sex with children.

4 hours ago, mspart said:

That is what the issue was with DeSantis and the so called Dont say gay bill.   Never did the bill say anything about gay.  What it said was there will be no teaching of sex, sexuality, or gender in classes K-3.   And that was the most horrible thing in the world to the D's.   Why is that, I'm sure you are asking.   Well, because that is called in other realms of thought, grooming.   We are indoctrinating the kids to think they can change their gender and this by the state.   This is not parents' call, strictly the State's call.   Well now it isn't the State's call and how sad is that?   Very sad from the Disney and D hubbub that this created. 

None of this is true.  First are you being purposely obtuse when you say the bill doesn't say anything about gay, then you say one sentence later that it talks about sexuality?  The bill actually has two parts, the preamble where it says you can't DISCUSS sex, sexuality, gender, etc. and then the body of the bill which says only INSTRUCT.  However, none of these words are ever defined by the bill or anywhere statutorily, leaving them so vague purposely so that people have no idea what they can or can't say, thus the culture of fear currently coursing through public schools to the point of gay teachers being afraid to even mention the existence of their significant other.  Nobody is indoctrinating kids to think anything, there is no actual statistical evidence of that, and importantly, the medical community wildly disagrees with this take.

4 hours ago, mspart said:

Since when are minors capable of making life long decisions?   Since never.   Yet, we tell them they can't drive, they can't drink, they can't own a house, they can't buy a gun, but by golly, they can take puberty blocking drugs that will affect them the rest of their lives and they can cut their breasts off and testicles and penis off and this will affect them the rest of their lives.   Do you not see a problem here?   That is why she said what she said.   It is not rocket science unless you are fully into the  idea that minors are fully intellectually able to make these kinds of decisions.   If they can for that, then these same people should be pushing them to drive cars and buy guns at age 11.   Of course no sane adult would do that, yet insane adults are clamoring for grooming kids in school to have them change their gender.   
 

You've now veered wildly off topic into an are that

1.  Affects an extremely small piece of the population.

2. In this case, nobody of any seriousness is advocating that kids receive any kind of medical care, including gender-affirming care without their parents approval.  Nobody is advocating for marching into schools, asking each individual kid if they're trans, and then immediately taking them to the surgical theater.  These things involve individual doctors with individual patients making individual decisions.  The mere discussion of th existence of a minority group of people should not be demonized.

4 hours ago, mspart said:

One more thing, is that there is no changing one's gender.   You are what you are.   There is no changing that.   You can cut off and plug up and extract what you will but that does not change your gender.   Your choromosomes still tell the truth. 

This is just unabashedly a misunderstanding of what gender is.  You can not change your birth sex, which is related to physical characteristics, whereas gender refers more to societal constructs and norms.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

4 hours ago, mspart said:

If  a minor wants to change their sex, they can make that decision when they are an adult, but preying on minors for this purpose is ghastly and evil.  Just my $0.02. 

mspart

I'm not saying nobody ever has done this, but the vast, vast, vast majority of trans kids are NOT hurt in the way you are describing.  They are making medical decisions with their parents.

[Bigbrog]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:45 PM, VakAttack said:

You're not asking legitimate questions where you want answers, because you are precluding any answers that don't conform with what you already believe, and damning sources before you even know what they say.  And I'm not asking anyone to bow down to me on the general subject of life, astrophysics, or neuro medicine, but when it comes to the idea of laws in the State of Florida, yes, you would probably want to defer to a lawyer who practices in Florida on the subject.  But keep on reveling in your obtuseness.  Imagine me coming into whatever your job is and lecturing you on it.

Please explain how I am not asking legitimate questions?  And you keep throwing out that "I am a lawyer!" b.s. over something that doesn't take having your expertise to answer.  Or are you saying the legislation that was passed does in fact have provisions that make it illegal to say "gay"??  And that the legislation does in fact ban books?  But yet you didn't even sight the legislation in your argument rather you mentioned how you live there and know a teacher who hates it and is scared to say or do anything, thus, all teachers and Floridians hate it and Desantis is killing education and just wants rich people to be educated.  Not to mention, what does being a lawyer have to do with claiming people on the board that oversee's Disney are anti-gay??  Bottom line is you can't back up your statements with facts and you call be obtuse...can't make this stuff up.

And you know what else is funny, you claim that Desantis is responsible for the insurance debacle...and I ask how...you say "because I am a lawyer and I live there!" without stating anything of HOW he is responsible.  Desantis doesn't control the insurance companies, nor the insurance policies that...uh oh...PEOPLE buy!!  I f'ing know how insurance works...and I know how it works in FL.  There are policies that people can purchase (may need to be multiple policies) that will protect them, after knowingly living in a state that gets hit by many hurricanes.  I actually told my brother, who lives there (who is anti anything political) and was impacted by the hurricanes multiple times, about this conversation and I asked him if Desantis was responsible for any lack of coverage he did or didn't have, he literally started laughing...and said, "That guy said he is a lawyer here?".

[El Luchador]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/donald-trump-indictment-democrats-no-slam-dunk.html

 

[LJB]

shocking that this would begin to look exactly like what it always was...

[Bigbrog]

And que the multitude of links to articles that have headlines "Donald Trump is Guilty! and then contain zero facts or information that supports the claim....but have to love Mikey, Plasi, Vak and Le Du's commitment to the narrative.

[El Luchador]

If the extreme leftists at Slate are seeing this, there won't be an abundance of even moderately legitimate sources saying otherwise. 

[VakAttack]

3 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Please explain how I am not asking legitimate questions?  And you keep throwing out that "I am a lawyer!" b.s. over something that doesn't take having your expertise to answer.  Or are you saying the legislation that was passed does in fact have provisions that make it illegal to say "gay"??  And that the legislation does in fact ban books?  But yet you didn't even sight the legislation in your argument rather you mentioned how you live there and know a teacher who hates it and is scared to say or do anything, thus, all teachers and Floridians hate it and Desantis is killing education and just wants rich people to be educated.  Not to mention, what does being a lawyer have to do with claiming people on the board that oversee's Disney are anti-gay??  Bottom line is you can't back up your statements with facts and you call be obtuse...can't make this stuff up.

And you know what else is funny, you claim that Desantis is responsible for the insurance debacle...and I ask how...you say "because I am a lawyer and I live there!" without stating anything of HOW he is responsible.  Desantis doesn't control the insurance companies, nor the insurance policies that...uh oh...PEOPLE buy!!  I f'ing know how insurance works...and I know how it works in FL.  There are policies that people can purchase (may need to be multiple policies) that will protect them, after knowingly living in a state that gets hit by many hurricanes.  I actually told my brother, who lives there (who is anti anything political) and was impacted by the hurricanes multiple times, about this conversation and I asked him if Desantis was responsible for any lack of coverage he did or didn't have, he literally started laughing...and said, "That guy said he is a lawyer here?".

1.  "Please explain how I'm not asking legitimate questions" - literally the second half of that sentence you're responding to explains that.

2.  "You keep throwing out that "i'm a lawyer" b.s. over something that doesn't take having your expertise..." - statutory interpretation and legislative intent are literally a huge part of what I do every ***duck duck goose** day, what are you talking about?  

3.  I'll just respond generally to your meandering thing about the language of the legislation.  The legislation is written overbroad specifically because it creates the situations desired outcomes of curtailing discussion of the undesired speech.  They are currently building on that pervious outcome with new legislation that expands it:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/31/florida-house-parental-rights-bill-pronouns-lgbtq-00089971

And on and on we go.

I never said all Floridians and all teachers hate it, because guess what, dumbass, there will never be anything that all people hate.  I'm telling you what the outcomes have been in the targeted communities.  I never said anything about the people on the board put in to oversee the Reedy Creek district (and not Disney, dope) are anti-gay, though there is substantial reporting that says that at least one of the guys has made several homophobic remarks, including calling gay people evil.

And again, I didn't claim Desantis is responsible for the insurance debacle, you just keep putting other people's arguments into my mouth because it suits, but he has definitely exacerbated the problem with his legislation that is entirely designed to favor the insurance companies over the insured.  People DO buy multiple policies, and then the insurance companies don't pay them, and have lobbied for (and been given) legislation from Desantis and his predecessors that make it harder to force them to pay on the policies that people buy.

7 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

And que the multitude of links to articles that have headlines "Donald Trump is Guilty! and then contain zero facts or information that supports the claim....but have to love Mikey, Plasi, Vak and Le Du's commitment to the narrative.

Again, keep putting words in my mouth, I have never said that this is some slam dunk prosecution, you just keep making shit up because your entire value in life is tied up in your political ideology, and you want to feel smarter on a subject than you actually are.

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, El Luchador said:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/donald-trump-indictment-democrats-no-slam-dunk.html

 

He is going to skate, maybe they'll hang a misdemeanor on him.

[LJB]

2 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

He is going to skate, maybe they'll hang a misdemeanor on him.

does it feel like a big waste of time now as opposed to the victory some were claiming for the weeks leading up?

[Bigbrog]

20 hours ago, VakAttack said:

1.  "Please explain how I'm not asking legitimate questions" - literally the second half of that sentence you're responding to explains that.

2.  "You keep throwing out that "i'm a lawyer" b.s. over something that doesn't take having your expertise..." - statutory interpretation and legislative intent are literally a huge part of what I do every ***duck duck goose** day, what are you talking about?  

3.  I'll just respond generally to your meandering thing about the language of the legislation.  The legislation is written overbroad specifically because it creates the situations desired outcomes of curtailing discussion of the undesired speech.  They are currently building on that pervious outcome with new legislation that expands it:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/31/florida-house-parental-rights-bill-pronouns-lgbtq-00089971

And on and on we go.

I never said all Floridians and all teachers hate it, because guess what, dumbass, there will never be anything that all people hate.  I'm telling you what the outcomes have been in the targeted communities.  I never said anything about the people on the board put in to oversee the Reedy Creek district (and not Disney, dope) are anti-gay, though there is substantial reporting that says that at least one of the guys has made several homophobic remarks, including calling gay people evil.

And again, I didn't claim Desantis is responsible for the insurance debacle, you just keep putting other people's arguments into my mouth because it suits, but he has definitely exacerbated the problem with his legislation that is entirely designed to favor the insurance companies over the insured.  People DO buy multiple policies, and then the insurance companies don't pay them, and have lobbied for (and been given) legislation from Desantis and his predecessors that make it harder to force them to pay on the policies that people buy.

Again, keep putting words in my mouth, I have never said that this is some slam dunk prosecution, you just keep making shit up because your entire value in life is tied up in your political ideology, and you want to feel smarter on a subject than you actually are.

You know what Vak...how about take a look in the mirror...everything you claim I am, I can turn around and claim the same about you.  What's also funny, not only do you try and put words in my mouth you try and put words into the legislation you oppose because it is coming from a person you didn't vote for, and also you somehow know it means something else because, hey, you are a lawyer (by the way you are the one who brought that up not me).  Anyway, I'll continue to be a dumbass and think I know stuff that maybe I don't, but guess what, you also will continue to be a dumbass and claim to know stuff that maybe you don't.  Enjoy the warm weather down there in Florida...can't wait until I can move there in 10 years...and I'll actually be down there in 2 weeks...can't wait to get my ass kicked by amberjack.

[mspart]

On 4/5/2023 at 7:08 PM, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Except for the HUGE mistake you're making here... you're being sold a line of crap. 

Many Democrats agree with you on this topic. In my experience, easily the majority of democrats agree with you.

I had a very similar discussion many times, too many times actually, not too long ago.

Many Democrats agree that defunding the police is a terrible idea. In my experience, easily the majority.

Why are you being sold a line of BS about democrats? Check your source and rethink how much you trust them.
 

We're being played - by people who want us to take sides against each other. Even though we, for the most part, agree. The worst part about it is that it's plain, obvious, and yet still working.

 

GWN,

Which party pushed for defund the police?   It may not be a majority of Ds that like this idea but it was Ds that pushed for it. 

Which part is pushing for youth to have access to puberty blockers and reassignment surgery?   It certainly isn't the Rs.   A majority of Ds may not hold that position, but the idea is pushed and backed by Ds. 

I don't think you can argue any of this.   If a majority of Ds are not in favor of these things, why do they elect people who are?   Sounds like a resorting of priorities is needed. 

I do agree that most people in the country are against these things whether D or R.   But it is disingenous to say that Ds aren't pushing these things when it is demonstrable that they are.   

Just ask yourself, who was against the "don't say gay" law in FL which made it illegal to teach K-3 about sex, sexuality, and sexual dysphoria?   R's or Ds?

Just ask yourself, who is/was for and enacted defunding the police?   Rs or Ds?

We may be being sold a load of crap, but these things are not even close to being in dispute.  

mspart

[Plasmodium]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

GWN,

Which party pushed for defund the police?   It may not be a majority of Ds that like this idea but it was Ds that pushed for it. 

Which part is pushing for youth to have access to puberty blockers and reassignment surgery?   It certainly isn't the Rs.   A majority of Ds may not hold that position, but the idea is pushed and backed by Ds. 

I don't think you can argue any of this.   If a majority of Ds are not in favor of these things, why do they elect people who are?   Sounds like a resorting of priorities is needed. 

I do agree that most people in the country are against these things whether D or R.   But it is disingenous to say that Ds aren't pushing these things when it is demonstrable that they are.   

Just ask yourself, who was against the "don't say gay" law in FL which made it illegal to teach K-3 about sex, sexuality, and sexual dysphoria?   R's or Ds?

Just ask yourself, who is/was for and enacted defunding the police?   Rs or Ds?

We may be being sold a load of crap, but these things are not even close to being in dispute.  

mspart

Define police.  FBI and and parts of the IRS are police in my book.

[mspart]

Do I really need to define this for you?  I hope not.   Think George Floyd riots and fallout and I'm sure it will all come rushing back to you. 

mspart

[Plasmodium]

43 minutes ago, mspart said:

Do I really need to define this for you?  I hope not.   Think George Floyd riots and fallout and I'm sure it will all come rushing back to you. 

mspart

I think so.  We are in the here and now.  FBI and IRS agents are police.  Republicans are screaming loudly to defund them, so they want to defund agencies that will compel them to follow the law.  Astounding.

[mspart]

The defunding of police here in WA has caused a spike in crime.   Same in Portland.   I don't know about other big cities but Chicago is none to fun.   Minneapolis has had to reverse course.  Diverting the topic doesn't make any of this untrue and doesn't make Ds any less accountable for the effects of their policies. 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/12-major-us-cities-top-annual-homicide-records/story?id=81466453

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/09/11/united-states-major-cities-violent-crime-homicides-survey/8060734001/

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/seattle-violent-crime-hits-15-year-high-other-takeaways-from-new-report/

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/chicago-crime-spikes-in-2022-but-first-drop-in-murder-since-pandemic/

I notice you have not addressed the gender dysphoria aspect of this.    I assume that you are in agreement with me on that one. 

mspart

[Plasmodium]

15 minutes ago, mspart said:

The defunding of police here in WA has caused a spike in crime.   Same in Portland.   I don't know about other big cities but Chicago is none to fun.   Minneapolis has had to reverse course.  Diverting the topic doesn't make any of this untrue and doesn't make Ds any less accountable for the effects of their policies. 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/12-major-us-cities-top-annual-homicide-records/story?id=81466453

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/09/11/united-states-major-cities-violent-crime-homicides-survey/8060734001/

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/seattle-violent-crime-hits-15-year-high-other-takeaways-from-new-report/

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/chicago-crime-spikes-in-2022-but-first-drop-in-murder-since-pandemic/

I notice you have not addressed the gender dysphoria aspect of this.    I assume that you are in agreement with me on that one. 

mspart

I am not advocating defunding the police.  I am pointing out it is a bipartisan call.

Yeah, I think we agree.

I do think "The Boy With Two Mommies" genre of children's books should be on the reading list.   AFAIK that is contrary to the Don't Say Gay Law.

[mspart]

29 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

I am not advocating defunding the police.  I am pointing out it is a bipartisan call.

Yeah, I think we agree.

I do think "The Boy With Two Mommies" genre of children's books should be on the reading list.   AFAIK that is contrary to the Don't Say Gay Law.

1.  Good, I'm glad that is your position.

2.  Good I'm glad that is your position.

3.   Would it be appropriate for K-3 who should be learning to read, write, and math it?   Or is it more appropriate for older kids?   Remember, the law only applies to K-3.   IMO, No need to confuse the little guys.   If they run into it with a friend, then they run into it with a friend.   Their parents can help them work it out.  Isn't that the way it has been since time immemorial?   Kid  has a question, the parents help them work through it.   What the law is preventing is requiring that book and the ideas in it to be taught and required reading for K-3.   That is all.  

mspart

 

 

[Plasmodium]

5 minutes ago, mspart said:

1.  Good, I'm glad that is your position.

2.  Good I'm glad that is your position.

3.   Would it be appropriate for K-3 who should be learning to read, write, and math it?   Or is it more appropriate for older kids?   Remember, the law only applies to K-3.   IMO, No need to confuse the little guys.   If they run into it with a friend, then they run into it with a friend.   Their parents can help them work it out.  Isn't that the way it has been since time immemorial?   Kid  has a question, the parents help them work through it.   What the law is preventing is requiring that book and the ideas in it to be taught and required reading for K-3.   That is all.  

mspart

 

 

It is appropriate for K-3.  This genre doesn't mention sexuality, focus on it or create the plot around it.  Just a presentation of a normal kid with a normal family living a normal life with same sex parents.  This was my own children's experience in school.

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

5 hours ago, mspart said:

GWN,

Which party pushed for defund the police?   It may not be a majority of Ds that like this idea but it was Ds that pushed for it. 

Which part is pushing for youth to have access to puberty blockers and reassignment surgery?   It certainly isn't the Rs.   A majority of Ds may not hold that position, but the idea is pushed and backed by Ds. 

I don't think you can argue any of this.   If a majority of Ds are not in favor of these things, why do they elect people who are?   Sounds like a resorting of priorities is needed. 

I do agree that most people in the country are against these things whether D or R.   But it is disingenous to say that Ds aren't pushing these things when it is demonstrable that they are.   

Just ask yourself, who was against the "don't say gay" law in FL which made it illegal to teach K-3 about sex, sexuality, and sexual dysphoria?   R's or Ds?

Just ask yourself, who is/was for and enacted defunding the police?   Rs or Ds?

We may be being sold a load of crap, but these things are not even close to being in dispute.  

mspart

The fact is that the nutty people who called for defunding the police exist in both parties. If you look at people currently being arrested for and convicted of crimes, these criminals belong to both parties, too.

To pin bad judgement or criminality on a specific political party is kind of silly. I could say that most flat-earthers and QANON believers are R's. That might be true, but it would be a silly thing to imply that the flat-earth and QANON concepts are somehow owned by the Republican party. They aren't. And anyone that blasts the R party for pushing those concepts is misguided.

Why do politicians get elected who are wackos, you ask? Again, not a problem specific to either party. Plenty of wackos in both parties. IMO, way too many.

My point is that there is no need to break these things down by making generalizations about a party. It doesn't serve any positive purpose.

On the other hand, it comes in handy if the purpose is to try to vilify a specific party. Then it becomes a tool to encourage us to point fingers, spread anger and hate, and keep us all focused on fighting each other. The other party isn't the enemy. But getting people to believe they are, has shown to be an effective way to get votes. Which may explain why we keep electing wackos in both parties.

[mspart]

16 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

It is appropriate for K-3.  This genre doesn't mention sexuality, focus on it or create the plot around it.  Just a presentation of a normal kid with a normal family living a normal life with same sex parents.  This was my own children's experience in school.

 

Well, then we agree that we disagree on this subject.   Thank you for explaining your position with clarity. 

mspart

[Bigbrog]

17 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

The fact is that the nutty people who called for defunding the police exist in both parties. If you look at people currently being arrested for and convicted of crimes, these criminals belong to both parties, too.

To pin bad judgement or criminality on a specific political party is kind of silly. I could say that most flat-earthers and QANON believers are R's. That might be true, but it would be a silly thing to imply that the flat-earth and QANON concepts are somehow owned by the Republican party. They aren't. And anyone that blasts the R party for pushing those concepts is misguided.

Why do politicians get elected who are wackos, you ask? Again, not a problem specific to either party. Plenty of wackos in both parties. IMO, way too many.

My point is that there is no need to break these things down by making generalizations about a party. It doesn't serve any positive purpose.

On the other hand, it comes in handy if the purpose is to try to vilify a specific party. Then it becomes a tool to encourage us to point fingers, spread anger and hate, and keep us all focused on fighting each other. The other party isn't the enemy. But getting people to believe they are, has shown to be an effective way to get votes. Which may explain why we keep electing wackos in both parties.

I agree GWN...but you should have quoted Plasi too.    I do have to say...the whole defund the police thing was in fact started based on political ideology.  I didn't agree with it then and I don't agree with some of the R politicians saying we should defund the FBI.  Now defund the IRS...that I MAY agree with depending on the why behind it.  The whole IRS should and needs to be trimmed down anyway.  Our government has turned the whole thing into a big pile of dog turd...it needs to be simplified!

[VakAttack]

19 hours ago, mspart said:

 

3.   Would it be appropriate for K-3 who should be learning to read, write, and math it?   Or is it more appropriate for older kids?   Remember, the law only applies to K-3.   IMO, No need to confuse the little guys.   If they run into it with a friend, then they run into it with a friend.   Their parents can help them work it out.  Isn't that the way it has been since time immemorial?   Kid  has a question, the parents help them work through it.   What the law is preventing is requiring that book and the ideas in it to be taught and required reading for K-3.   That is all.  

mspart

 

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/31/florida-house-parental-rights-bill-pronouns-lgbtq-00089971

I have pointed this out to you a couple of different times, but they are already working on expanding that to K-8.  Then it will be K-12.  It's all been a stepping stone, shifting the Overton window on this subject. "Oh it's just K-3, of course this is ok..." and already, here we are expanding it.