At there Very Best - why do you pick?

[AgaveMaria]

All the undefeated. Hodge guys. Top Talent.

On match with your wrestler at this Very Best, top of his game.

Who do you pick?

I'll go Mark Schultz. At his best he demolished the competition.

[Lipdrag]

Where very best?

[AgaveMaria]

College career.

 

[WrestlingRasta]

13 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

On match with your wrestler at this Very Best, top of his game  

Huh?

[jackwebster]

Chris Fleeger during that highlight montage soundtracked by the Chemical Brothers' hideous "Out of Control."

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by jackwebster

[Eagle26]

Jordan Burroughs his senior year was probably the best college wrestler I have seen. 

[Not134]

Fleeger was a great talent, but didn't seem to have the conditioning to win the big ones.

[Matthew Burns]

Senior Les Gutches looked bored. I would put him in the running. Tough as they come. Absolutely dominant in his Hodge year.

Retherford, Nikal, and Ruth during their Hodge years were similar.

I'll mention the obvious. Cael Sanderson. I don't think anyone had better "feel' from neutral. I don't think I ever saw him breathing hard.

[D3 for LU]

I definitely remember back in the "old" forum there was a poster who was absolutely BONKERS over Chris Fleeger.

His(hers?)post was usually one word... FLEEGER!

(Who was that poster?)

D3

[D3UC157]

Taylor, but Dake keeps it close.

[Threadkilla]

4 hours ago, D3 for LU said:

I definitely remember back in the "old" forum there was a poster who was absolutely BONKERS over Chris Fleeger.

His(hers?)post was usually one word... FLEEGER!

(Who was that poster?)

D3

I remenber that but can't remember the poster.  I do remember BIG had a man crush on Troy Nickerson.    

[scourge165]

44 minutes ago, Threadkilla said:

I remenber that but can't remember the poster.  I do remember BIG had a man crush on Troy Nickerson.    

I mean...c'mon! Who doesn't...

[GreatWhiteNorth]

2006 NCAA 1/4's Fleeger v Reiter... and the "slam" heard 'round the world:

[scourge165]

Ok, my answers...

Cael seems to obvious. I don't recall how he was on bottom, but I don't remember anyone riding him.

He was dominant on his feet. He could go takedowns and win a match 12-5 with 2 minutes of RT
He could ride pretty much anyone. He was ballsy top wrestling...rolling across his back, crab ride. As we just saw, doesn't take much for one Wrestler to get caught.

 

Other than that, Lincoln Mcllravy
Won it as a true Freshmen, but at his best, he seemed to mix the best of Iowa and Penn State. He dominated by being relentless, but he was also so slick and good in scrambles. As scrambling has gotten better, it doesn't seem QUITE as impressive, but this with Bono was amazing. I remember my coach having us watch this;

Scramble at ~11 minute mark.

Kyle Dake didn't dominate the same as David Taylor, but if the point is absolute control in Folkstyle, he was as dominant in that regard as anyone else I've seen. 

And of course, Gable Stevenson.

[Jim L]

Cael Sanderson or Ben Askren

Cael won OW as a Freshman and got better significantly better every year.

Askren was incredibly dominant his last two years.  It looked like he was from the future as he put himself unfamiliar positions that looked terrible and ended up winnig every scramble. He transformed the sport

 

[KCMO2]

1 hour ago, Jim L said:

Askren was incredibly dominant his last two years.  It looked like he was from the future as he put himself unfamiliar positions that looked terrible and ended up winnig every scramble. He transformed the sport

 

Yep, Herbert can attest to that.  Unless his opponents ran the whole match then they were getting at very least majored.  It was a surprise when Gavin held it to a regular decision in the finals Askren's senior year (Ben pinned him in the first period earlier that season).

[Matthew Burns]

Another mention,

 

2016 Alex Dierhringer.  The loss he took in the NCAA tournament as a freshman seemed to awaken his inner Hulk. He pretty much smashed everyone for the next 3 seasons.

A very ham and eggs sort of style, but automatic. No holes in his game.

[nhs67]

I think this might end up being a Gable Steveson VS Cael Sanderson final.

Steveson probably wins it.

[Matthew Burns]

50 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I think this might end up being a Gable Steveson VS Cael Sanderson final.

Steveson probably wins it.

I would have that sort of reverence for Steveson had he run the gauntlet a third time. Especially considering Parris pulling the Hodge this year.

[nhs67]

39 minutes ago, Matthew Burns said:

I would have that sort of reverence for Steveson had he run the gauntlet a third time. Especially considering Parris pulling the Hodge this year.

What does reverence have to do with anything as far as match prediction goes?

Gable Steveson would have won a Folkstyle wrestling match.  Period.

Gable would have easily won this year, too.  He would be a 3x Hodge winner had he wrestled.  Mason Stevesonson would have gotten destroyed.

[Matthew Burns]

26 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

What does reverence have to do with anything as far as match prediction goes?

Gable Steveson would have won a Folkstyle wrestling match.  Period.

Gable would have easily won this year, too.  He would be a 3x Hodge winner had he wrestled.  Mason Stevesonson would have gotten destroyed.

Would you agree or disagree Parris was the best version of himself we have seen? I say he is. Disagree if you like.

Would you have liked to see Steveson in the tournament 1 more time considering he was eligible? My answer is "yes please". He chose to end things as a two time champ, so that's what he is.

I would put Gable as a heavy favorite vs Parris today. I'll leave it to others to drop opinions as fact. Every year we see a few heavily favored athletes fail to win their weight class.  There was an example of that at 125? Kid from Purdue spoiled some dudes run for 4?

The other guy gets to wrestle.

 

 

 

 

[nhs67]

26 minutes ago, Matthew Burns said:

Would you agree or disagree Parris was the best version of himself we have seen? I say he is. Disagree if you like.

Would you have liked to see Steveson in the tournament 1 more time considering he was eligible? My answer is "yes please". He chose to end things as a two time champ, so that's what he is.

I would put Gable as a heavy favorite vs Parris today. I'll leave it to others to drop opinions as fact. Every year we see a few heavily favored athletes fail to win their weight class.  There was an example of that at 125? Kid from Purdue spoiled some dudes run for 4?

The other guy gets to wrestle.

You are comparing apples and ceiling fans there.

Spencer Lee was recovering from double ACL surgery.

Steveson has beaten Parris every single time in easier fashion.  Parris could beat every other human on the planet - he just wasn't going to beat Steveson.

You really need to understand my tendencies as a poster, as a Michigan alumni - former wrestler, and flat-out Parris fanboy-isms to appreciate the level that I put Steveson at.

Also, I don't know that this was the best version of Parris.  Hopefully we see him at the US Open to know for sure.  I still think he was pretty hesitant in a lot of matches - which injury will do.  2020-2021 season Parris had bonus in every match he wrestled - sans Steveson.  That includes Cass and Kerk.

Edited March 28, 2023 by nhs67

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, Matthew Burns said:

Would you agree or disagree Parris was the best version of himself we have seen? I say he is. Disagree if you like.

Would you have liked to see Steveson in the tournament 1 more time considering he was eligible? My answer is "yes please". He chose to end things as a two time champ, so that's what he is.

I would put Gable as a heavy favorite vs Parris today. I'll leave it to others to drop opinions as fact. Every year we see a few heavily favored athletes fail to win their weight class.  There was an example of that at 125? Kid from Purdue spoiled some dudes run for 4?

The other guy gets to wrestle.

 

 

 

 

Isn't the discussion at their BEST who wins? Who was the most unbeatable.

Cael was elite all 4 years, but at his best, really nobody was challenging him. 

Stevenson though...he looked like he was toying with guys. Nobody was close to him. So what may have happened this year...and I believe Parris maybe keeps the match closer, but it's still an easy Gable win.

My money is on Gable Stevenson 2022. I don't think that's recency bias, but I also didn't see the likes of Schultz and Kemp in their primes. 

Also, the original Gable seemed to dominate until one final match, but again, different era. 

[Matthew Burns]

I'm comparing Cortlands to McIntosh.

I don't what lines you are reading between where I might favor Parris. I don't. I simply gave credit to his season.

Lee's knees didn't get him pinned. He got caught in a head pinch and defended it wrong. And the point was we watch sports for the unscripted drama. The underdogs and upsets. Two unbeaten wrestlers battling it out. We watch because nothing is a sure thing.

 

[Matthew Burns]

13 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Isn't the discussion at their BEST who wins? Who was the most unbeatable.

Cael was elite all 4 years, but at his best, really nobody was challenging him. 

Stevenson though...he looked like he was toying with guys. Nobody was close to him. So what may have happened this year...and I believe Parris maybe keeps the match closer, but it's still an easy Gable win.

My money is on Gable Stevenson 2022. I don't think that's recency bias, but I also didn't see the likes of Schultz and Kemp in their primes. 

Also, the original Gable seemed to dominate until one final match, but again, different era. 

It is.

I wonder if 2023 Steveson would have dwarfed the 2022 version.