Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, Idaho said: PAC 10 was way different back then.... each year he won it there was 1 other guy from the conference who was an AA from the PAC 10. They also had other tournaments with other schools they went to as well, but that was probably before your time. Pac 10 indeed! I forgot? How many All-Americans did Spencer have per year in Big 10? Many more opportunities to have a bad day in Big 10. I saw him wrestle in person a a couple of occasions. I always put him in the top tier of my 125 lb all time great list. However, I think that NHS may have been saying that when Spencer was "on" in 2020, he was the most dominant 125 that there has ever been. Peak Spencer. Abas never destroyed top guys to the extent that Spencer did in 2020. Funny that Abas does not seem to like any Spencer comparisons and really looks to put Spencer's wrestling abilities down when he speaks about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHROMEBIRD Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 19 hours ago, nhs67 said: Right. You lost or something? We aren't talking Max Dean. We are Talking Max Murin. It took ten years for Murin to AA. VV will do it in two. To be fair, Murin wrestled out of his natural weight for half his career, then plagued with injuries after Lugo graduated. Not making excuses for the guy, but I do think he's a better wrestler than what we see on paper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Pac 10 indeed! I forgot? How many All-Americans did Spencer have per year in Big 10? Many more opportunities to have a bad day in Big 10. I saw him wrestle in person a a couple of occasions. I always put him in the top tier of my 125 lb all time great list. However, I think that NHS may have been saying that when Spencer was "on" in 2020, he was the most dominant 125 that there has ever been. Peak Spencer. Abas never destroyed top guys to the extent that Spencer did in 2020. Funny that Abas does not seem to like any Spencer comparisons and really looks to put Spencer's wrestling abilities down when he speaks about him. I really don't care about the argument.... I was only referencing your knock on Abas and the Pac10 and that he did have competition. Nobody is arguing it's better than the Big10. Look up Abas' 2002 bracket... some impressive names in there. One thing we can say, Abas wrestled when he was supposed to. 1 Sponsored by INTERMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Idaho said: I really don't care about the argument.... I was only referencing your knock on Abas and the Pac10 and that he did have competition. Nobody is arguing it's better than the Big10. Look up Abas' 2002 bracket... some impressive names in there. One thing we can say, Abas wrestled when he was supposed to. Some competition, yes. But those 144 wins and "no losses at 125" just aren't the same in a lesser conference. Both stats were used to show Abas superiority. I was just adding some context. Does he have "no losses at 125 with a Big 12 or Big 10 schedule? He would see Oklahoma State a bit "moore" for instance. And if he wrestled when he was supposed to: How come "only" three titles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said: My dad used to tell me if I wanted to do better I should swim faster. He left it to me to work out the details. One of my kids swam. Funny story. He is coasting thru a 100 meter race in the outside lane (coasting is why he was always in the outside lane) when the coach gets right along the edge of the pool and starts to scream at him to go faster. Coach was really loud. Sure enough, his last 50 was way, way, way faster than his first 50. He comes out of the pool and I am timing the lane next to his lane and he gets out all upset because the coach screamed at him. I told him he had set a new PR for the 100 meters so what is he complaining about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, Idaho said: I really don't care about the argument.... I was only referencing your knock on Abas and the Pac10 and that he did have competition. Nobody is arguing it's better than the Big10. Look up Abas' 2002 bracket... some impressive names in there. One thing we can say, Abas wrestled when he was supposed to. And in the 1999 NCAA tournament he had to beat the 1998 champ and the 2000 champ. 1 Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Some competition, yes. But those 144 wins and "no losses at 125" just aren't the same in a lesser conference. Both stats were used to show Abas superiority. I was just adding some context. Does he have "no losses at 125 with a Big 12 or Big 10 schedule? He would see Oklahoma State a bit "moore" for instance. And if he wrestled when he was supposed to: How come "only" three titles? 4th as a freshman is better than 6th as a 6th year senior. 3 Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurk_Nowitzki Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Some competition, yes. But those 144 wins and "no losses at 125" just aren't the same in a lesser conference. Both stats were used to show Abas superiority. I was just adding some context. Does he have "no losses at 125 with a Big 12 or Big 10 schedule? He would see Oklahoma State a bit "moore" for instance. And if he wrestled when he was supposed to: How come "only" three titles? Because sometimes in wrestling u lose the match even tho u tried to win 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Lurk_Nowitzki said: Because sometimes in wrestling u lose the match even tho u tried to win 6 minutes ago, jchapman said: 4th as a freshman is better than 6th as a 6th year senior. Oh... so "never lost at 125" but lost twice at 118! Tricky! Guess what - same basic weight class, different weigh-in rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, jchapman said: 4th as a freshman is better than 6th as a 6th year senior. Why was Lee a 6th year senior? Almost like something happened during his career that no one had control over? Were there other six year seniors in his weight? Weird. Don't be disingenuous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Oh... so "never lost at 125" but lost twice at 118! Tricky! Guess what - same basic weight class, different weigh-in rules. I wasn't trying to trick anyone, perhaps it says something about you that you feel "tricked." Losing close decisions twice at 118 (to future 2Xer Jeurgens both times) is at least comparable to getting pinned twice at 125, no? Edited May 10, 2023 by jchapman Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, jchapman said: I wasn't trying to trick anyone, perhaps it says something about you that you feel "tricked." Losing twice at 118 is at least comparable to getting pinned twice at 125, no? The funny thing is I would generally put Abas in as my top 125, he just was never as dominant as Lee, and wrestled a far weaker schedule. I am a Spencer Lee fan, but I can see the obvious flaws. The six year thing is a bit low on your part, though. Kinda scummy tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: The funny thing is I would generally put Abas in as my top 125, he just was never as dominant as Lee, and wrestled a far weaker schedule. I am a Spencer Lee fan, but I can see the obvious flaws. The six year thing is a bit low on your part, though. Kinda scummy tbh. How is it low and scummy? It's the truth and adds context. Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 45 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said: To be fair, Murin wrestled out of his natural weight for half his career, then plagued with injuries after Lugo graduated. Not making excuses for the guy, but I do think he's a better wrestler than what we see on paper. This is more than pretty fair, to be honest. Results are results and results VS potential results are what we're talking. Murin was a grinder that Iowa might not have the likes of at 149 again for some time. Every match was brutal for his opponent and they knew that going in. He will be a missed commodity. 2 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Just now, jchapman said: How is it low and scummy? It's the truth and adds context. It adds no context. It is scummy because Lee and thousands of other lost a chance to compete and you are reveling in it., because you think it makes your argument better. Millions lost opportunities or loved ones, but it is a point you are making in a dumb internet argument that started when I said you can't compare a PAC schedule to a Big 10 schedule. It actually adds ZERO context, because you don't mention why it took six years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 39 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Some competition, yes. But those 144 wins and "no losses at 125" just aren't the same in a lesser conference. Both stats were used to show Abas superiority. I was just adding some context. Does he have "no losses at 125 with a Big 12 or Big 10 schedule? He would see Oklahoma State a bit "moore" for instance. And if he wrestled when he was supposed to: How come "only" three titles? He wrestled a full schedule all 4 years and wrestled back 4 matches in the consolation at the NCAA in 1998... not sure what you are getting at. Sponsored by INTERMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Idaho said: He wrestled a full schedule all 4 years and wrestled back 4 matches in the consolation at the NCAA in 1998... not sure what you are getting at. I missed the "trickery" of 'no losses at 125." Forgot that his losses were at 118. I can think of some international seasons he missed with knee issues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: I missed the "trickery" of 'no losses at 125." Forgot that his losses were at 118. I can think of some international seasons he missed with knee issues... Has nothing to do with it... Abas wrestled a full schedule all 4 years and wrestled back through consolation. Has nothing to do with only winning 3 titles or at what weight. Now you want to move the goalposts to international where he won a silver at the Olympics at just about the same age that Spencer is now with no international career? Okay.... Like I said, I really don't care about the debate between Abas and Lee, but your Lee glasses just cause you to go into defense mode and start saying stuff that's stupid. 1 Sponsored by INTERMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 51 minutes ago, jchapman said: 4th as a freshman is better than 6th as a 6th year senior. I must admit that Spencer does have him on the number of videos that dad has to make for their adult son. 1 Sponsored by INTERMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Pinnacle said: One of my kids swam. Funny story. He is coasting thru a 100 meter race in the outside lane (coasting is why he was always in the outside lane) when the coach gets right along the edge of the pool and starts to scream at him to go faster. Coach was really loud. Sure enough, his last 50 was way, way, way faster than his first 50. He comes out of the pool and I am timing the lane next to his lane and he gets out all upset because the coach screamed at him. I told him he had set a new PR for the 100 meters so what is he complaining about. Negative split. Now you are talking my language. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 55 minutes ago, nhs67 said: This is more than pretty fair, to be honest. Results are results and results VS potential results are what we're talking. Murin was a grinder that Iowa might not have the likes of at 149 again for some time. Every match was brutal for his opponent and they knew that going in. He will be a missed commodity. Murin's level of effort definitely will never be questioned. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorwrestler Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 One step forward, two steps back in Minnesota. Losing Nagao, Spratley and now Jamison is about as disaster level as it can get. Thank god for the Koy Hopke commitment, but the lightweight portion of the team is in absolute shambles. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le duke Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 One step forward, two steps back in Minnesota. Losing Nagao, Spratley and now Jamison is about as disaster level as it can get. Thank god for the Koy Hopke commitment, but the lightweight portion of the team is in absolute shambles. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkJamison? He’s leaving???Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorwrestler Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 Jamison? He’s leaving???Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWillie tweeted that he’s in the portal this afternoon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcement Posted May 10, 2023 Share Posted May 10, 2023 WTF Jamison? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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