165

[MizzouFan01]

Carr

Hamati

O’toole

Kennedy

Sugar Shane

Monday

Ramirez

after Carr, who falls where

[Mr. PeanutButter]

Good list but you gotta penalize Shane for having 3 losses on the season. He doesn't even have the benefit of being a conference champ to lift him above someone like Ramirez.

[MizzouFan01]

21 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Good list but you gotta penalize Shane for having 3 losses on the season. He doesn't even have the benefit of being a conference champ to lift him above someone like Ramirez.

Absolutely. Wasn’t an attempt to seed. Merely a list of names. Carr is obviously 1, was just wondering who falls where after him. 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

9 minutes ago, MizzouFan01 said:

Absolutely. Wasn’t an attempt to seed. Merely a list of names. Carr is obviously 1, was just wondering who falls where after him. 

Dang. I should have read the last line of your post. You spelled it out right there. My bad.

Without putting much thought into it, I really like your list, I would just put Shane at the end.

[scourge165]

50 minutes ago, MizzouFan01 said:

Carr

Hamati

O’toole

Kennedy

Sugar Shane

Monday

Ramirez

after Carr, who falls where

I would go

1-Carr
2-O'Toole
3-Hamiti
4-Monday
5-Griffith
6-Ramirez
7-Kennedy

 

H2H could flip Hamiti and Monday(plus Monday is a returning runner up, though not at '65). Monday's lone loss was to Ramirez who Hamiti beat handily, but who knows.

Hamiti did look like he was wrestling better than he has yet in his career. This would just be my seed. B1G winner. #1 and #2 should be obvious, then...kinda toss-ups after that. It'd be best for Hamiti given how he Wrestled Carr if O'Toole was somehow dropped to the 4 seed as I could MAYBE see Hamiti upsetting Carr based on their prior match and how he scrambled with him, got in on shots and just the way the two match-up. I think it's far less likely that Hamiti beats O'Toole...just based on the matchup, but it's gonna be exciting. 

And Griffin always finds himself right in the mix, Monday is capable of beating anyone.

 

Not sure I see anyone out of the top 5 save for Amine as having a realistic chance of winning it, but who knows. Amine is a complete darkhorse. I could see him losing in the quarters and then in the rd of 16 or upsetting O'Toole and giving Carr a great match in the finals. 

[BigRedFan]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I would go

1-Carr
2-O'Toole
3-Hamiti
4-Monday
5-Griffith
6-Ramirez
7-Kennedy

 

H2H could flip Hamiti and Monday(plus Monday is a returning runner up, though not at '65). Monday's lone loss was to Ramirez who Hamiti beat handily, but who knows.

You mean Monday's *two* losses were to now-EIWA Champion Ramirez.  No way Monday gets seeded above Ramirez.

[Idaho]

1-Carr
2-O'Toole
3-Hamiti
4-Ramirez
5-Monday
6-Kennedy
7-Griffith 

[BuckyBadger]

6 hours ago, Idaho said:

1-Carr
2-O'Toole
3-Hamiti
4-Ramirez
5-Monday
6-Kennedy
7-Griffith 

Nice QF matchup of Griffith/O’Toole.

[goheels1812]

2 minutes ago, BuckyBadger said:

Nice QF matchup of Griffith/O’Toole.

This would be an incredibly tough path for O’Toole. Griffin in the quarters, Hamiti in the semis, rematch with Carr in the finals. Assuming all seeds held of course. I think O’Toole would navigate it to reach the championship, but it certainly won’t be easy. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

KOT mentioned that Carr's arm length gave him problems the first time they wrestled. I'm now doubtful that he will be able to scramble with Hamiti. 

[VakAttack]

...I think Hamiti might get the 2 seed over O'Toole.

[BuckyBadger]

Griffith is the wild card. Could see him returning to the finals and taking out any of the top 3.

Could also see him getting upset before the quarters.

[uncle bernard]

5 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

KOT mentioned that Carr's arm length gave him problems the first time they wrestled. I'm now doubtful that he will be able to scramble with Hamiti. 

This should ease your concern

 

 

[scourge165]

4 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

This should ease your concern

 

 

Of course...but this version of Hamiti looked slow, sluggish. In the B1Gs he looked so much quicker, a lot more solid defensively. 

Still lean O'Toole for sure, but I don't expect he'll get taken down as easily. 

[scourge165]

5 minutes ago, BuckyBadger said:

Griffith is the wild card. Could see him returning to the finals and taking out any of the top 3.

Could also see him getting upset before the quarters.

It feels like Griffin gets underrated. I think I had him taking a 7th last year, maybe a 5th. But 2020 he was undefeated going in as a RSFR. As a True Freshmen, he had a 6-4 match with Joseph who'd won 2 titles his first two years at that point. Came back and beat Wick last year and then gave O'Toole a great match in the finals.

 

I don't know why and maybe it's more my own perception, but it's felt like he's a fluke despite all evidence to the contrary. I agree with you. There's no reason he can't end up back atop the podium. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

Good point. Griffith does his best work when people doubt him.

[Chestcrusher]

40 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

...I think Hamiti might get the 2 seed over O'Toole.

Hamiti was the #1 165 in RPI and has conference placement over O'Toole. Coaches ranking shouldn't change too much though. 

[bnwtwg]

45 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

...I think Hamiti might get the 2 seed over O'Toole.

Accurate and a travesty if it happens. Nothing like punishing the second best wrestler because they have the misfortune of losing to the #1 wrestler. Le sigh

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

Accurate and a travesty if it happens. Nothing like punishing the second best wrestler because they have the misfortune of losing to the #1 wrestler. Le sigh

I agree and hope common sense prevails.  I won't be TOO mad about it as long as KOT is opposite Carr, but, rightfully speaking, I think Carr and KOT are the top two guys and seeds should reflect as much.

[Chestcrusher]

5 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Accurate and a travesty if it happens. Nothing like punishing the second best wrestler because they have the misfortune of losing to the #1 wrestler. Le sigh

1. Head-to-head competition — 25 percent No matchup that would count. 
2. Quality wins — 20 percent Hamiti has more quality wins than O'Toole
3. Coaches Ranking — 15 percent O'Toole will be ranked higher
4. Results against common opponents — 10 percent Both lost to Carr, but Hamiti was closer 7-5
5. RPI — 10 percent Hamiti has higher RPI
6. Qualifying event placement — 10 percent Hamiti placed higher
7. Win % — 10 percent O'Toole is higher

Hamiti has 50 points O'Toole gets 25 points. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Chestcrusher

[CHROMEBIRD]

I wouldn't be too mad if Hamiti gets seeded above O'Toole (and I'm a KOT fan). To Hamiti's credit, he's wrestled a lot more matches and bulldozed his way through the Big Ten 165 field, which is no walk in the park. I think KOT's LBF last night will make it easier to give Hamiti the #2 spot.

[Red Blades]

25 minutes ago, Chestcrusher said:

Hamiti was the #1 165 in RPI and has conference placement over O'Toole. Coaches ranking shouldn't change too much though. 

Here are the top 8 from the previous Coaches Ranking - I'm curious, what do you think changes, if anything?  (to be fair - I have no idea how I'd do this, I'm just fishing for answers!)

Previous Coaches Ranking, top 8:

RANK     NAME    TEAM    CONFERENCE     POINTS

1             David Carr     Iowa St. Big 12    396

2             Keegan O`Toole  Missouri       Big 12    384

3             Shane Griffith     Stanford       Pac 12   370

4             Quincy Monday  Princeton      EIWA     355

5             Cameron Amine        Michigan       Big Ten  340

6             Dean Hamiti       Wisconsin      Big Ten  336

7             Julian Ramirez    Cornell  EIWA     319

8             Patrick Kennedy Iowa      Big Ten  312

Edited March 6, 2023 by Red Blades
clarify, grammar

[ugarles]

14 minutes ago, Chestcrusher said:

1. Results against common opponents — 10 percent Both lost to Carr, but Hamiti was closer 7-5

I don't think it's that granular. IIRC, this would count as a tie with each getting 5 points.

[Red Blades]

Someone please correct me if this is wrong - but as I recall - the process compares each wrestler to each of the 32 other wrestlers, and does a point score for each comparison - and then the wrestler's total score is the sum total of the 32 separate scores - and then the final ranking is based upon the total score for each wrestler.  So it is possible then to score higher compared to one individual, but be ranked lower based on the sum total score.  Is that still how the process works?  To further muddy the waters - there is some optional subjective criteria that presumably can be considered in the case of a tie or even close point score.

In other words: " It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key."

Edited March 6, 2023 by Red Blades

[Crotalus]

1 hour ago, goheels1812 said:

This would be an incredibly tough path for O’Toole. Griffin in the quarters, Hamiti in the semis, rematch with Carr in the finals. Assuming all seeds held of course. I think O’Toole would navigate it to reach the championship, but it certainly won’t be easy. 

 

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

...I think Hamiti might get the 2 seed over O'Toole.

I think O'Toole will get the 2, but getting the 3 may not be the worst thing if the seeds play out as listed above otherwise. Kennedy is no cake walk, but a step below Griffith. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Crotalus