Scourge Big Boy Greco...

[Cherkov]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:36 PM, scourge165 said:

 

 

Tell me you're that guy who believes Karelin went like...a decade without losing, much less getting scored on because...da Google says so!

The no score claim is complete myth with video evidence proving that it's not true . Why do you think he lost though? The only thing I've ever heard is one match in 99 where he won after requesting a review. I don't believe a tape is public, so who knows whether it was fair. 

[LJB]

1 hour ago, Cherkov said:

The no score claim is complete myth with video evidence proving that it's not true . Why do you think he lost though? The only thing I've ever heard is one match in 99 where he won after requesting a review. I don't believe a tape is public, so who knows whether it was fair. 

you are wasting your time...

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, Cherkov said:

The no score claim is complete myth with video evidence proving that it's not true . Why do you think he lost though? The only thing I've ever heard is one match in 99 where he won after requesting a review. I don't believe a tape is public, so who knows whether it was fair. 

I think it was a Bulgarian that I can no longer recall. But yeah, he lost in the '99(I thought '98 World Championships, but I'll go with you) and then like EVERY match back then, the Russians paid some cash and appealed it(whatever the fee was). Cary Kolat had about 9 Olympics stolen from him through that nonsense. They kept changing the rules based entirely on how badly he got screwed.

He also lost another match...but the thing is with Karelin, a LOT of what is written down about him in Google, these mythical standards...they came from Rulon's coach gassing him up(not that he needed much, he WAS an animal). And then just nobody cared enough to fact check it. 

 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, LJB said:

you are wasting your time...

Ignore the little man here. He feels like he needs to be a part of every discussion involving Greco on the board as he has watched lots of it.

[Cherkov]

3 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I think it was a Bulgarian that I can no longer recall. But yeah, he lost in the '99(I thought '98 World Championships, but I'll go with you) and then like EVERY match back then, the Russians paid some cash and appealed it(whatever the fee was). Cary Kolat had about 9 Olympics stolen from him through that nonsense. They kept changing the rules based entirely on how badly he got screwed.

He also lost another match...but the thing is with Karelin, a LOT of what is written down about him in Google, these mythical standards...they came from Rulon's coach gassing him up(not that he needed much, he WAS an animal). And then just nobody cared enough to fact check it. 

 

Yeah you're talking about Sergei Mureiko, the Moldovan/Bulgarian/Soviet competitor. Karelin's main rival. It was in 1999, nothing like that recorded in 1998s matches all standard Karelin fare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_World_Wrestling_Championships_–_Men's_Greco-Roman_130_kg.

I've seen quite bit of footage of Karelin from various tournaments, he almost always wrecked his opponents from 1989 - 1998. Typical Karelin match had a pin or suplex. These were not Riza Kayaalp caution wins. He had at least two tournaments where he pinned everyone. The only exceptions were when Karelin got injured mid match or was recovering from serious injuries. Every top wrestler who competed during that time got pinned or thrown by Karelin.  I've read an article that Gaffari wrestled him pretty well at 1991 worlds (3-0), but gaffari would definitely let everyone know if he felt that he had been cheated in that match (has never said anything).  

Starting in 1999, Karelin was getting Rulon'd every tournament and before guys like Rostorotzky and Gervoski gave the immature wiry 240 lb version trouble. 

So what's the other match you're talking about? The Rostorotzky loss in 1987 or you heard something else?

 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Cherkov said:

Yeah you're talking about Sergei Mureiko, the Moldovan/Bulgarian/Soviet competitor. Karelin's main rival. It was in 1999, nothing like that recorded in 1998s matches all standard Karelin fare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_World_Wrestling_Championships_–_Men's_Greco-Roman_130_kg.

I've seen quite bit of footage of Karelin from various tournaments, he almost always wrecked his opponents from 1989 - 1998. Typical Karelin match had a pin or suplex. These were not Riza Kayaalp caution wins. He had at least two tournaments where he pinned everyone. The only exceptions were when Karelin got injured mid match or was recovering from serious injuries. Every top wrestler who competed during that time got pinned or thrown by Karelin.  I've read an article that Gaffari wrestled him pretty well at 1991 worlds (3-0), but gaffari would definitely let everyone know if he felt that he had been cheated in that match (has never said anything).  

Starting in 1999, Karelin was getting Rulon'd every tournament and before guys like Rostorotzky and Gervoski gave the immature wiry 240 lb version trouble. 

So what's the other match you're talking about? The Rostorotzky loss in 1987 or you heard something else?

 

I was merely being hyperbolic(see the 9 Olympics with Kolat).

Not denying Karelin's supremacy or how incredible he was. This whole thing is...just mindlessly ridiculous. The whole, "real wrestling," vs Folkstyle/Freestyle or Women's wrestling.  Just pointing out the myth that the "hadn't given up a point in 10 years," and or lost in 15 as is exaggerated. He's been mythologized a bit. The Greatest ever in his discipline, but he didn't go a decade without giving up points or however many years without losing. 

I don't know when the other was, but yes, I heard Jim Gruenwald and another Greco World Team Member(Ethan...something) joking about it at Ben Peterson's "Camp of Champs." It was effectively just as great as he was, his record had been exaggerated a bit.

[MPhillips]

https://www.flowrestling.org/live/51206

[LJB]

i totally blanked on egypt...

 

**tip of the cap**

[Cherkov]

All these sources from the trash encyclopedia and it takes two seconds of looking into it to disprove.

 

 "Prior to his last match versus Rulon Gardner in September 2000, a point had not been scored on him within the previous six years.^{[13][14][15].}

^1:50

[mspart]

On 2/19/2023 at 3:56 PM, scourge165 said:

Cary Kolat had about 9 Olympics stolen from him through that nonsense. They kept changing the rules based entirely on how badly he got screwed.

This is a fact, except for the 9 Olympics.   But rules changed in 1998, 1999, and 2000 due to how Kolat got screwed.   The best wrestler to never win gold. 

mspart

[scourge165]

20 minutes ago, mspart said:

This is a fact, except for the 9 Olympics.   But rules changed in 1998, 1999, and 2000 due to how Kolat got screwed.   The best wrestler to never win gold. 

mspart

Yes...of course, as I said, it was hyperbole, but it speaks to the nature of international Wrestling at that point with the questionable calls overturned. I remember hearing a story(years later and passed along through several people) after Slay won about team USA coaches made sure to follow the officials around as one of the Kolat appeals had been appealed without a USA representative there...and resulted in him getting screwed.

 

[mspart]

5 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Yes...of course, as I said, it was hyperbole, but it speaks to the nature of international Wrestling at that point with the questionable calls overturned. I remember hearing a story(years later and passed along through several people) after Slay won about team USA coaches made sure to follow the officials around as one of the Kolat appeals had been appealed without a USA representative there...and resulted in him getting screwed.

 

This I believe.   Kolat really got it handed to him the years he was our rep.  Matches taken away that he had won.   Horrible. 

mspart