35 countries demand ban of Russia at the 2024 Olympics

[scourge165]

54 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

"Nation Wide." Hmmm... not in my nation. I've never seen it celebrated here.

I know nothing of it. Perhaps you are being manipulated?

Perhaps.

And perhaps you're not really the expert or authority to speak on what the people of Azerbaijan are celebrating. I didn't realize you were from there. That'd show a staggering amount of hypocrisy. 

[scourge165]

32 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

That was not "the argument" being made by anyone here. That was you alone posting that.

That wasn't the argument being made by anyone here? That an unprovoked attack means you shouldn't be allowed to participate in the Olympics?

Huh...

Quote

I think the proverbial "line" is when a country is openly attempting to eliminate another country. To bomb it back to the stone age, killing innocent citizens including women and children, assassinate its leader, steal its land, its wealth, and absorb it.

Perhaps you could clarify then?

33 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

And then you've added the question of our culture being OK with "rape"? With no factual basis.

What are you talking about? When in the hell did I ever "add the question of our culture being OK with "rape?"

 

34 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Your attempts here are weak. You've lost any credibility you may have started to earn.

So ad hominem because I don't agree with your arbitrary line in the sand which apparently only Russia has crossed?

I'll let me argument stand on their own. What you think of my "credibility," and bringing that up rather than the actual conflict cited is...not a good look.

 

59 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I asked that he do better, because it was vague.

What he posted, and what you posted here are two very different things. Not sure what to make of it. Now it's moved past vague and to inconsistent. Fruitful conversation will be difficult when it starts with vague and inconsistent comments.

It wasn't vague, it was your ignorance. As mspart correctly pointed out, this was not well covered in the United States. 

It was something you should know about if you're going to be the arbiter of who should and shouldn't be allowed in the Olympics. 

 

Really curious though where I said "our culture" was ok with rape. Feels like you're confused here.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

8 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Perhaps.

And perhaps you're not really the expert or authority to speak on what the people of Azerbaijan are celebrating. I didn't realize you were from there. That'd show a staggering amount of hypocrisy. 

Check yourself.

You're first mention of "Azerbaijan" was AFTER my post about "Nation Wide" above.

I don't claim to be an expert or authority on anything I am not. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

14 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

That wasn't the argument being made by anyone here? That an unprovoked attack means you shouldn't be allowed to participate in the Olympics? Huh...

Not an argument I made, not at all. Don't make me repost what I've already posted.

20 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

So ad hominem because I don't agree with your arbitrary line in the sand which apparently only Russia has crossed?

I have no "line in the sand", I've made that clear multiple times. Again, don't make your reading problem my problem. Read my posts.

21 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

It wasn't vague, it was your ignorance. As mspart correctly pointed out, this was not well covered in the United States. 

You seem to believe it wasn't "covered" in the US. But by all means of internet searches, it doesn't appear to have happened from any country's perspective. It does appear to be fake news.

But go on, blame me and call me names. Whatever makes you feel better.

[scourge165]

4 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

https://cepa.org/article/morality-shouldnt-get-in-the-way-russias-genocidal-state-media/

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/13/us/politics/ron-desantis-ukraine-tucker-carlson.html

Putin is evil, Russia's invasion into Ukraine is a War crime. I think we're all in agreement there.

I am in favor of supporting the Ukraine and their sovereignty...and that includes sending military aid to the Ukraine. Not with Ron "Desanctimonious" on that one. 

There's no defense of Russia. The Country is an enemy of the US. They're objectively wrong. There are Russians in the region they're trying to "reclaim." So what? There are Neo-Nazi's in the Ukraine...they were minimized and had little credibility with a Jewish Man was elected President by an overwhelming margin.

But when it comes to the Olympics, who are you punishing? Russia's an oppressive regime. You speak out, you're arrested, imprisoned if you're luck for a short time...sometimes assassinated. 

You're still punishing individuals at the end of the day. Has the "Republic of Dagestan" got anything to do with this War? And I have gone back to them because it's a Wrestling board.

If you ban all athletes from Russia, I don't think you accomplish anything. This isn't and shouldn't be viewed as a defense of Russia's actions.

[scourge165]

2 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Not an argument I made, not at all. Don't make me repost what I've already posted.

I literally did just that. Those were your words. I'll post them again;

Quote

I think the proverbial "line" is when a country is openly attempting to eliminate another country. To bomb it back to the stone age, killing innocent citizens including women and children, assassinate its leader, steal its land, its wealth, and absorb it.

Those aren't your words?

4 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I have no "line in the sand", I've made that clear multiple times. Again, don't make your reading problem my problem. Read my posts.

Ok, my apologies. When someone says, "I think the proverbial "line" is when....infers you have a line. 

Must be my "reading problem."

5 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

You seem to believe it wasn't "covered" in the US. But by all means of internet searches, it doesn't appear to have happened from any country's perspective. It does appear to be fake news.

But go on, blame me and call me names. Whatever makes you feel better.

Fake News? LOL...wow. That's...that is fitting.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/armenia-azerbaijan-clashes.html#:~:text=Azerbaijan said its military actions,its service members were killed.

And call you names?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

42 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

That wasn't the argument being made by anyone here? That an unprovoked attack means you shouldn't be allowed to participate in the Olympics? 

Read carefully - "unprovoked attack" is not the same as an attempt to invade and eliminate another country.

Israel/Palestine do the former all the time, but not so much the latter.

You do have a reading problem - a selective one. Read all the words and you'll understand better.

[scourge165]

38 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Check yourself.

You're first mention of "Azerbaijan" was AFTER my post about "Nation Wide" above.

I don't claim to be an expert or authority on anything I am not. 

??? Seriously? We were literally discussing the topic.

9 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

don't make your reading problem my problem. Read my posts.

NOW it's actually applicable.

 

As for the "fake news," does NPR work? I...I'm not even sure what to do with that one. It still has me a bit shocked that you would have the arrogance to declare an event that while not well covered in this Country, it's hardly difficult to find details(or I still have the link of the actual video if you'd like).  That this happened is not disputed(actually defended by Azerbaijan).

Ignorance of a subject is one thing...which is where I assume you were confused and claimed...kinda out of nowhere I suggested OUR Culture, ie, American culture, celebrated the rape of the Armenian soldier in the particularly disgusting video.

mspart himself said he was unaware of the events. I'm certainly ignorant about some of the details.

 

But the arrogance to be ignorant of conflict and then after a cursory internet search deem it "fake news?" You sure you want to go with that? The "Fake News" argument? It may still be within 15 minutes. I'd backtrack on that one.

 

[scourge165]

6 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Read carefully - "unprovoked attack" is not the same as an attempt to invade and eliminate another country.

Israel/Palestine do the former all the time, but not so much the latter.

You do have a reading problem - a selective one. Read all the words and you'll understand better.

Wait...this was just fake news not long ago. 

You realize this dates back to the Armenian genocide, right? I'd say that constitutes "invade and ELIMINATE."

Quote

You do have a reading problem - a selective one. Read all the words and you'll understand better.

This probably isn't the point in the discussion I'd be arguing over one's reading comprehension. 

Particularly when you were confused about what "culture" I was referencing when talking about Azerbaijan...despite the several links which would be called context clues or...where we outright discuss it.

Edited March 14, 2023 by scourge165

[GreatWhiteNorth]

2 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

But the arrogance to be ignorant of conflict and then after a cursory internet search deem it "fake news?" You sure you want to go with that? The "Fake News" argument? It may still be within 15 minutes. I'd backtrack on that one.

Prove me wrong - then I will apologize. 

I'd never heard of it before, your reference was weak to begin with, and you basically claimed you didn't really know in a follow up post. 

Do your best.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

2 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Wait...this was just fake news not long ago. 

You realize this dates back to the Armenian genocide, right? I'd say that constitutes "invade and ELIMINATE."

You seem to have forgotten the details of the previous topic of fake news. C'mon, wake up. Doesn't apply here.

Now you're reaching for history that is irrelevant to the current discussion?

You're desperate, and passionate. The last half I can appreciate.

 

[scourge165]

3 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Prove me wrong - then I will apologize. 

I'd never heard of it before, your reference was weak to begin with, and you basically claimed you didn't really know in a follow up post. 

Do your best.

Warning-This one is graphic. It's the only graphic one I'll post.

https://azeriwarcrimes.org/2022/09/19/desecration-of-female-armenian-soldier-by-azerbaijani-troops/

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/19/1123515328/armenia-azerbaijan-nagorno-karabakh-explained

NPR? Is that one..."weak?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Anush_Apetyan

Finally...Wiki. There are numerous sources in there.

 

Quote

I'd never heard of it before, your reference was weak to begin with, and you basically claimed you didn't really know in a follow up post. 

You're flailing now...and badly. The question was put to me why this wasn't better covered in the United States. I replied that I didn't really know. NOT that I didn't know the event took place. 

What did you say? "Don't make your reading my problem?" 

Quote

Prove me wrong - then I will apologize. 

It's not that hard. I'm not gonna hold my breath. When people use their ignorance to yell fake news, I actually think THEY lose credibility...whatever you may think about mine.

 

I mean, you JUST claimed I hadn't made mention of Azerbaijan prior to your use of "Nation wide," which was somehow an important distinction. So you've yet to admit you're wrong yet and instead...resorted to the "fake news," nonsense.

[scourge165]

23 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

You seem to have forgotten the details of the previous topic of fake news. C'mon, wake up. Doesn't apply here.

Now you're reaching for history that is irrelevant to the current discussion?

You're desperate, and passionate. The last half I can appreciate.

 

I don't have much left. You're claiming something both Governments, the US Senate, and Human Rights organizations around the world have condemned was "fake news." 

And that happened in 2022.

 

You're desperate and you're wrong...and now you're just claiming something didn't happen because it doesn't fit your narrative. That I can't respect(edit-or "appreciate.")

Edited March 14, 2023 by scourge165

[GreatWhiteNorth]

11 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

It's not that hard. I'm not gonna hold my breath. When people use their ignorance to yell fake news, I actually think THEY lose credibility...whatever you may think about mine.

I mean, you JUST claimed I hadn't made mention of Azerbaijan prior to your use of "Nation wide," which was somehow an important distinction. So you've yet to admit you're wrong yet and instead...resorted to the "fake news," nonsense.

Nobody here is 'yelling fake news' - that's your imagination yelling. I detest the term and avoid using it if at all possible.

Just check yourself - it's all in this thread! You used the "Nation wide" phrase... Oh Christ, I give up, I'm arguing with a stubborn child here.

Gather yourself and maybe we'll do better tomorrow evening.

 

 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

You seem to believe it wasn't "covered" in the US. But by all means of internet searches, it doesn't appear to have happened from any country's perspective. It does appear to be fake news.

 

6 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Nobody here is 'yelling fake news' - that's your imagination yelling. I detest the term and avoid using it if at all possible.

Didn't try so hard to avoid using it here though. Wonder why that is?

6 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Gather yourself and maybe we'll do better tomorrow evening.

So am I to assume that apology you promised with better sources will be forthcoming?

Nah...I didn't think so. NPR, the actual video, Wikipedia and the numerous sources they provided. 

Good thing you never called it..."fake news."

 

We really don't need to take this one back up. I respected the position...though I disagreed with it. Any respect I had I lost when you blindly and ignorantly called this atrocity "fake news," which...now you claim you haven't done...beyond all reason and evidence to the contrary.

Anyway, I'm gathered. I'm also done on this issue. Not knowing about something is...fine. It's normal. There are a lot of things a lot of people are ignorant about.

Not knowing about it, being told about it and then without any information(kinda the definition of ignorance) claiming it's fake, particularly with something this atrocious is kinda disgusting.

Do better next time.

Edited March 14, 2023 by scourge165

[GreatWhiteNorth]

17 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Didn't try so hard to avoid using it here though. Wonder why that is?

So am I to assume that apology you promised with better sources will be forthcoming?

Nah...I didn't think so. NPR, the actual video, Wikipedia and the numerous sources they provided. 

Good thing you never called it..."fake news."

 

We really don't need to take this one back up. I respected the position...though I disagreed with it. Any respect I had I lost when you blindly and ignorantly called this atrocity "fake news," which...now you claim you haven't done...beyond all reason and evidence to the contrary.

Anyway, I'm gathered. I'm also done on this issue. Not knowing about something is...fine. It's normal. There are a lot of things a lot of people are ignorant about.

Not knowing about it, being told about it and then without any information(kinda the definition of ignorance) claiming it's fake, particularly with something this atrocious is kinda disgusting.

Do better next time.

I don't believe you are purposely being misleading, but I do believe you are letting your emotions cloud your judgement and are bending reality to fit better with your message.

I did get around to checking the NPR link you provided - and, no, it doesn't mention any soldier who was raped and mutiliated. Any mention I've seen of it are from dubious sources. As I said, it appears to be "not real" news. (Not screaming here, just making a statement.) Do I know that it is? No, of course not. It could be real - but, I have no way of confirming that and you've provided nothing of value in terms of confirmation (and it is interesting that you seem to flip flop between claiming it is real and then claiming you don't know for sure - hint, from what you've provided so far, logic dictates it's the second one.)

How atrocious an event is or isn't - it isn't relevant to the level of confidence we should have in it as factual news. In other words, because its atrocious that shouldn't sway us into believing it. The internet has filled our lives with liars and cheats. Doubting "news" isn't disgusting, it's strongly advised.

I am anything but an expert on what is happening there. That is why I'm careful not to easily believe what I'm told.

No hard feelings from my side, these types of conversations tend to get heated. I'm out. 

Bigger and better things going on in the wrestling world for the rest of the week.

 

 

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

(and it is interesting that you seem to flip flop between claiming it is real and then claiming you don't know for sure - hint, from what you've provided so far, logic dictates it's the second one.)

I mean, this is the...3rd time you've lied about this one. Kinda weak. 

"Don't make your reading my problem."

Question;

Quote

Scourge,  Thank you for providing the link.  I wonder why I hadn't heard of this?   This did not make general news here did it? 

My answer;

Quote

I don't know either. Again, just repeating what I have read, but they seem to be an important ally vs Russia, Iran, possibly China according for the US. The US stepped in here and kinda slapped their wrists, but it was kept quiet. No Armenian flags on Twitter, no outrage. Just came and went and probably because it just wasn't interesting enough for most US Citizens. 

 

So again, I have to wonder is the problem really you just struggle with reading comprehension or if this is just intellectual dishonesty. Pretty clear it's the later.

The question...VERY clearly is why this wasn't covered more or a bigger story, NOT if it happened. You're the only one claiming this didn't happen.

5 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

No hard feelings from my side, these types of conversations tend to get heated. I'm out. 

Yeah...that seems suspect. You're being willfully misleading. 

 

5 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

How atrocious an event is or isn't - it isn't relevant to the level of confidence we should have in it as factual news.

So that video is a deep fake? Or you suspect it could be?

I don't think it really actually matters how much evidence you see. It's not convenient for it to be true. You're the only person I've heard with this...Sandy Hook type "fake news," argument. 

 

The French must be lying about this as well?

https://news.am/eng/news/720794.html

 

The problem really seems to be that you didn't know about this, ergo, it must not have happened. As I said, I won't hold my breath on the apology.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

22 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

... just repeating what I have read...

And that tie's up the loose ends.

(If you'd like to continue repeating what you've read, by all means do so.)

 

[scourge165]

10 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

And that tie's up the loose ends.

(If you'd like to continue repeating what you've read, by all means do so.)

 

Man...you're still lying about question.

That's...just sad. Again, the question, WHY wasn't this covered more in the US.

https://time.com/6219263/armenia-azerbaijan-us-involvement/

Time, NPR, The French Gov't, Human Rights...wiki and the numerous cited sources there...the actual video. 

I STILL do not know why this wasn't covered more in the US. I'm really starting to wonder if you're genuinely not mentally capable of understanding the difference between that answer, and the one you just conjured up out of nowhere.

I'm starting to think it's the prior. 

It's been proven. You're the only one who's still for some...bizarre reason pretending it didn't happen or as though it's still in doubt.

 

Man, talk about taking intellectual dishonesty to new heights. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

@scourge165 Cool. Good talk.

Now let's maybe focus on the NCAA's. It's time - wrestling's biggest week is about to start. Looking forward to the big event. I've got Warner on my fantasy team at 197... Go Iowa!