35 countries demand ban of Russia at the 2024 Olympics

[LJB]

i believe the levels tested for cannaboids now means if you are not competing high you are probably not going to test positive...

[Mike Parrish]

2 hours ago, LJB said:

i believe the levels tested for cannaboids now means if you are not competing high you are probably not going to test positive...

Do you have a source I can look at?

[LJB]

THC is the only cannabinoid for which there is a urinary threshold and it is set at 150 ng/mL

https://www.usada.org/athletes/substances/marijuana-faq/#:~:text=What does a threshold for,is below 150 ng%2FmL.

 

to be honest, i do not know what other substances fall into this category...

i am working under the impression we are just talking about the devil's lettuce...

and i feel like 150 ng/ml is high right now...

i could be totally off base...

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, El Luchador said:

Can you imagine being the second best guy in the world and the second best guy in your family. 

I cannot. It's pretty wild. It's a short list of brothers who'd have won World or Olympic Titles if not for FAMILY members blocking them!

Saitiev? Adam won an Olympic title the one year Buvaisar lost to Slay and had a DNP(would have been allowed to Wrestle back to 3rd had the original Gold medalist popped right away)and the year or two prior he let Adam Wrestle 76KG at the WC.

It's crazy enough that Saitiev couldn't MAKE the Russian team once or twice(I think twice) because he got knocked off by a countryman. Likely being the 2nd best in the world for a decade+ to your own brother is insane.

I wonder if Terry Brands wouldn't have had the same Collegiate and Olympic success if he didn't have to cut as much weight? 26-4 as a Freshmen and gets beat out while Tom takes 4th. Then loses to Cross while Tom wins a Gold. As close to an American version of as I can think of.

 

[Crotalus]

21 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Alberto Salazar is a great example of “from the top.”

Some individuals off the top of my head:

Marion Jones

Bowerman Burrito Track Club

US wrestlers busted:

Daton Fix

Kevin Randleman

Jordan Oliver

The Greco guys last year

Can we all at least agree the greco team should be cheating? I mean nothing else is working for them. 

[LJB]

2 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Can we all at least agree the greco team should be cheating? I mean nothing else is working for them. 

cheating or maybe just taking a flame thrower to all of...

 

(shenanigans heard in the background)

 

(silence)

Edited March 6, 2023 by LJB

[JoeSmith]

On 2/12/2023 at 3:54 PM, MPhillips said:

Archie never rooted for any, "pinko commies."

How about the ChiComs?

[mspart]

I don't think he rooted for them either.  

mspart

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Invading other countries to kill their citizens and take their land is wrong in the modern world.

Putin decided to do exactly that wrong thing. Killing citizens of a neighboring country and attempting to take their land.

This is not the act of a civilized country. It is atrocious and disgusting.

Only civilized countries are welcome at the Olympics. Putin-led Russia is not welcome.

 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Invading other countries to kill their citizens and take their land is wrong in the modern world.

Putin decided to do exactly that wrong thing. Killing citizens of a neighboring country and attempting to take their land.

This is not the act of a civilized country. It is atrocious and disgusting.

Only civilized countries are welcome at the Olympics. Putin-led Russia is not welcome.

 

Again, then China, North Korea, Iran...and a LOT of other Countries are out.

The US(and the rest of NATO) was allowed in when they went into Iraq. I think we can all agree that was unjustified and a whole lot of citizens who had zero say in anything their leader was doing died. 

There are also the places that throw the gay(or just suspected gay) people off buildings...I don't know if I've mentioned that before. Feels like I should have. Where do you stop? How much oppression or death? And who decides? The people of Russia are already suffering Putin's tyrannical leadership. He's used that Country as his own piggy bank. 

What Russia is doing is horrible. By all reports, it's ALMOST entirely Putin and the War is widely unpopular. So I don't agree with punishing the athletes. 

Unless the girls Gymnasts or the Wrestling team can make a difference in stopping Putin, I would still argue they should be allowed to compete as they were in 2020(or '21).

[GreatWhiteNorth]

17 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Again, then China, North Korea, Iran...and a LOT of other Countries are out.

The US(and the rest of NATO) was allowed in when they went into Iraq. I think we can all agree that was unjustified and a whole lot of citizens who had zero say in anything their leader was doing died. 

There are also the places that throw the gay(or just suspected gay) people off buildings...I don't know if I've mentioned that before. Feels like I should have. Where do you stop? How much oppression or death? And who decides? The people of Russia are already suffering Putin's tyrannical leadership. He's used that Country as his own piggy bank. 

What Russia is doing is horrible. By all reports, it's ALMOST entirely Putin and the War is widely unpopular. So I don't agree with punishing the athletes. 

Unless the girls Gymnasts or the Wrestling team can make a difference in stopping Putin, I would still argue they should be allowed to compete as they were in 2020(or '21).

I chose the wrong word. 'civilized' is far too broad. It could refer to good taste in wine pairings, or grey poupon. Too broad.

I think the proverbial "line" is when a country is openly attempting to eliminate another country. To bomb it back to the stone age, killing innocent citizens including women and children, assassinate its leader, steal its land, its wealth, and absorb it.

There are many examples of conflicts between countries, and there always will be. There are many examples of state sponsored incivility and there always will be. Countries are not only awful to other countries, but they are also awful to their own people. 

When countries get together at the Olympics, in a statement of unity and mutual sporting respect, it is symbolic of a higher level of peace and understanding. I believe any country that is trying to 'eliminate' another one of those countries should not be allowed to participate. It would go against everything the event stands for. The Olympic games aren't simply a competition, they are much more than that.

[Nailbender]

5 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I chose the wrong word. 'civilized' is far too broad. It could refer to good taste in wine pairings, or grey poupon. Too broad.

I think the proverbial "line" is when a country is openly attempting to eliminate another country. To bomb it back to the stone age, killing innocent citizens including women and children, assassinate its leader, steal its land, its wealth, and absorb it.

There are many examples of conflicts between countries, and there always will be. There are many examples of state sponsored incivility and there always will be. Countries are not only awful to other countries, but they are also awful to their own people. 

When countries get together at the Olympics, in a statement of unity and mutual sporting respect, it is symbolic of a higher level of peace and understanding. I believe any country that is trying to 'eliminate' another one of those countries should not be allowed to participate. It would go against everything the event stands for. The Olympic games aren't simply a competition, they are much more than that.

     Have you ever seen the statistics on innocents killed by US drone strikes? 

     I don't like what Putin is doing. I also want my country to do whatever it needs too that is in my best interest. Trying to vilify some behavior without regard for other behavior is gonna be a tough case to make.

[LJB]

WMD...

[GreatWhiteNorth]

2 minutes ago, Nailbender said:

     Have you ever seen the statistics on innocents killed by US drone strikes? 

     I don't like what Putin is doing. I also want my country to do whatever it needs too that is in my best interest. Trying to vilify some behavior without regard for other behavior is gonna be a tough case to make.

I don't disagree with you.

But the US hasn't tried to eliminate and absorb any of the countries we are in conflict with.

And the point I'm making is about Olympic participation - not about other World level competition. The Olympics are a different animal. There is a spirit behind them that isn't in any other competition. 

[Nailbender]

1 hour ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I don't disagree with you.

But the US hasn't tried to eliminate and absorb any of the countries we are in conflict with.

And the point I'm making is about Olympic participation - not about other World level competition. The Olympics are a different animal. There is a spirit behind them that isn't in any other competition. 

There is a long history that is a little more complicated than Russia just "absorbing another country".

The spirit of the Olympics can't have any bearing on this conversation, unless that spirit is applied equally to the actions of all participating. 

Can I ask your view on the benefit of prohibiting Russia's participation? Does it benefit anyone? Or just punish...the athletes?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

3 minutes ago, Nailbender said:

There is a long history that is a little more complicated than Russia just "absorbing another country".

There is always a long history, and it is always complicated.  But here, Russia is simply attempting to take a neighbor state.

Show me pictures of Ukranian tank convoys rolling into Russia and I'll think otherwise.

6 minutes ago, Nailbender said:

The spirit of the Olympics can't have any bearing on this conversation, unless that spirit is applied equally to the actions of all participating. 

The reverse is true. The participation is selective by participants - only those that believe in the spirit of the Olympic Games should be allowed to participate.

[Bigbrog]

I'm not sure how I feel about the ban of athletes from Russia at the Olympics...I am sort of torn.  But I find it hard to compare what Russia is doing now to other countries given that you are trying to compare thousands of years of culture to an active invasion of another country...to me those are apples and oranges...and I don't mean that in a sense of what I think is right vs. wrong, as both are atrocious (i.e, invading a country or throwing gay people off buildings or gassing their own civilians, etc.), but the comparisons need to be checked in my opinion.  And as far as what we did in Iraq, I think intent matters here...and I am not trying to start an argument of the whole "WMD" thing or if we should have "cared enough" to go int there, but we weren't there to take over a country per se, but rather "free" a country from a true tyrant who had ill will for the US.  Anyway, point being what Russia is doing should stand on it's own when determining if they should compete in the Olympics...and I believe that is what the multi-national IOC has done.

[mspart]

16 hours ago, Nailbender said:

There is a long history that is a little more complicated than Russia just "absorbing another country".

The spirit of the Olympics can't have any bearing on this conversation, unless that spirit is applied equally to the actions of all participating. 

Can I ask your view on the benefit of prohibiting Russia's participation? Does it benefit anyone? Or just punish...the athletes?

South Africa was not in the Olympics for years because of politics.   Just sayin'.

mspart

[Nailbender]

1 hour ago, mspart said:

South Africa was not in the Olympics for years because of politics.   Just sayin'.

mspart

I quit arguing the point because I realized I didn't want to go to bat for every nation that has or has not been allowed to participate. I got caught up in a conversation I didn't want to be in, just because I felt @GreatWhiteNorth's reasoning was a little too black and white. Which also should be (and is) just fine by me.

 

 

See what I did there?

[mspart]

I'm not saying Russia should not be there.  I'm was just saying SA was not allowed due to politics.  In the end, the Olympics is politics in my opinion. 

Russian athletes will probably get to be under some made up Olympic flag and all will be right with the world.

mspart

[Mike Parrish]

46 minutes ago, mspart said:

I'm not saying Russia should not be there.  I'm was just saying SA was not allowed due to politics.  In the end, the Olympics is politics in my opinion. 

Russian athletes will probably get to be under some made up Olympic flag and all will be right with the world.

mspart

I have mixed feelings about Russia competing.

If nothing else, they should be more heavily scrutinized and more heavily tested prior to their admission, given the history of noncompliance, regardless of the flag they end up competing under.

[mspart]

Mike,  is this based on Russia invading Ukraine, or general PED violations in the past?

mspart

[Mike Parrish]

22 minutes ago, mspart said:

Mike,  is this based on Russia invading Ukraine, or general PED violations in the past?

mspart

Some of the first, mostly the second.

Even without Ukraine, the PEDs stuff should mean stiffer penalties than what the IOC has dished out.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Mike Parrish

[mspart]

38 minutes ago, Mike Parrish said:

Even without Ukraine, the PEDs stuff should mean stiffer penalties than what the IOC has dished out.

I agree.

mspart

[Cherkov]

On 3/5/2023 at 11:39 PM, scourge165 said:

I cannot. It's pretty wild. It's a short list of brothers who'd have won World or Olympic Titles if not for FAMILY members blocking them!

Saitiev? Adam won an Olympic title the one year Buvaisar lost to Slay and had a DNP(would have been allowed to Wrestle back to 3rd had the original Gold medalist popped right away)and the year or two prior he let Adam Wrestle 76KG at the WC.

It's crazy enough that Saitiev couldn't MAKE the Russian team once or twice(I think twice) because he got knocked off by a countryman. Likely being the 2nd best in the world for a decade+ to your own brother is insane.

I wonder if Terry Brands wouldn't have had the same Collegiate and Olympic success if he didn't have to cut as much weight? 26-4 as a Freshmen and gets beat out while Tom takes 4th. Then loses to Cross while Tom wins a Gold. As close to an American version of as I can think of.

 

Rostorotsky was the second best wrestler in the world, with number 3 and levels below him, and he had to quit the sport.

In the modern era, he'd easily transfer.