Montana is trying to outdo the rest of the red states

[El Luchador]

2 minutes ago, Mike Parrish said:

Your seeming support for 'teaching the controversy' around the age of the earth.

How about you put forth an alternative to a scientific theory that you think should merit equal time in science class.

I've said it several times, you only hear what you want.

[LJB]

opinion stuff about to happen here...

 

one of the more common traits among legitimate hyper intelligent people is how they all mostly get how little they actually understand...

how crazy this universe really is...

 

if this silly country could start moving towards the direction of uncertainty and less towards vehemence, we would all be much better off...

 

[El Luchador]

6 minutes ago, LJB said:

opinion stuff about to happen here...

 

one of the more common traits among legitimate hyper intelligent people is how they all mostly get how little they actually understand...

how crazy this universe really is...

 

if this silly country could start moving towards the direction of uncertainty and less towards vehemence, we would all be much better off...

 

This is one of the most  scientific statements made on this topic. The reality is most of what happens and affects us happens outside of our ability to perceive.  The arrogance of limited knowledge is downright stupid.

Edited February 10, 2023 by El Luchador

[LJB]

1 minute ago, El Luchador said:

This is one of the most  scientific statements made on this topic. The reality is most of what happens and affects us happens outside of our ability to perceive.  The arrogance of limited knowledge is downright stupid.

i will unlike this post 3Xs today just so i can like it again...

[BerniePragle]

7 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

This is one of the most  scientific statements made on this topic. The reality is most of what happens and affects us happens outside of our ability to perceive.  The arrogance of limited knowledge is downright stupid.

Yep.  You're the first one to ever think of that.  Thanks for enlightening us.

To know what you know and what you do not know, that is true knowledge.
-Confucius

To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge.
-Socrates

The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge.
-Daniel J. Boorstin, Librarian of the United States Congress

And I'm sure countless others.

[Plasmodium]

Are you guys talking about grad or grade school?

[LJB]

8 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Are you guys talking about grad or grade school?

whichever sets the most country wide policy...

because from the outside looking in, there is little to distinguish between those two levels...

[Crotalus]

Wow, this thread blew up while I was trying to actually get some work done. But Mike handled any I would have responded to directly.

It is really hard to have an intelligent conversation about this when some folks can't distinguish between a scientific theory and a "theory". Science thrives on being challenged and questioned, but you need data in order to do so. The ideas that have been challenged the most and stood the test of time are the ones we have the most confidence in. The age of the planet/universe and evolution are some of the most heavily scrutinized concepts and are by far still our best explanations.

opinion stuff about to happen here...
 
one of the more common traits among legitimate hyper intelligent people is how they all mostly get how little they actually understand...
how crazy this universe really is...
 
if this silly country could start moving towards the direction of uncertainty and less towards vehemence, we would all be much better off...
 

Dunning-Kruger is one of those buzz words you are so fond of, but it is more accurate than your comment above.

[LJB]

6 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

Dunning-Kruger is one of those buzz words you are so fond of, but it is more accurate than your comment above.

you have played your role to perfection...

i could not have asked for a better example...

**tip of the cap**

[Crotalus]

3 minutes ago, LJB said:

you have played your role to perfection...

i could not have asked for a better example...

**tip of the cap**

Likewise, my friend. Likewise. 

[LJB]

i can not wait until the 8th page of this thread and we finally get to simulation theory...

that is when we will start to make some real progress...

[Crotalus]

8 minutes ago, LJB said:

i can not wait until the 8th page of this thread and we finally get to simulation theory...

that is when we will start to make some real progress...

Why wait? Let's jump right in. I think it's completely bonkers and belongs in the realm of philosophy, not science. While it is "theoretically" possible, there is no evidence to back it up (though it would have been programed that way, of course).

[LJB]

Just now, Crotalus said:

Why wait? Let's jump right in. I think it's completely bonkers and belongs in the realm of philosophy, not science. While it is "theoretically" possible, there is no evidence to back it up (though it would have been programed that way, of course).

it is the sexiest "theory" to me...

makes the absolute most sense and everything i have seen fits into it with more ease than anything i have ever experienced in my life...

but...

like you say...

exactly how it would have been programmed...

[GreatWhiteNorth]

10 hours ago, LJB said:

interesting...

using that logic, then almost all of what gets pushed for an agenda is "pseudoscience"...

again...

who decides what is "pseudoscience"?

Who decides what is "fake science"? And who decides what is "fake news"?

IMO, these (2) questions deserve more focus and thought by everyday people than they are getting.

• Fake media = Some try extremely hard to remain fair and unbiased, others are ridiculously biased on purpose, many more are somewhere in between.  It's getting very difficult for all of us to sort it out and decide who is trustworthy vs who isn't. The integrity of the "news" as a credible source of information is a luxury we no longer have.
• Science = Since Covid, due in large part to the above 'media' point, we have entered a strange and dark period in our history where science is no longer trusted. Any Tom, Dick, or Mary on the internet can now question decades of scientific theory as if they have some higher knowledge.
• Neither of these things is a specific to the U.S. - the same things are causing unrest around the world. Who's behind it? A bunch of people who want to see the world burn is my best guess - too many of those. Certainly nobody that intends to make the world a better place is behind it - those are the people we need more of.

[BerniePragle]

On 2/9/2023 at 7:40 PM, LJB said:

Who decides what is and what is not “pseudoscience”?

“Pseudoscience” is one of those trite buzz words that have been adopted by both sides and has lost whatever teeth it may have had at one time…

Actually,  Science decides.  The gods of Physics,  Chemistry,  Biology are impossible to BS.  Unlike what seems like the majority of the US public.

[LJB]

the food pyramid...

[El Luchador]

5 hours ago, LJB said:

the food pyramid...

That's a perfect example of corrupted science. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

14 hours ago, LJB said:

the food pyramid...

Oh, for Pete's sake. You consider the 'food pyramid' to be "science"?

... and here I was, just thinking we were getting to common ground.

[LJB]

i can't hold your hand on this one...

[scourge165]

On 2/10/2023 at 9:02 AM, El Luchador said:

Are you saying there is no way the age of earth is in anyway possible not 4.5 billion years? There is zero room for scientific dissent?  This is fact? 

I took it more as a "there is no way the age of the earth is in anyway possible" just 6,000 years old as Religious Doctrine would have you believe. 

[El Luchador]

26 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I took it more as a "there is no way the age of the earth is in anyway possible" just 6,000 years old as Religious Doctrine would have you believe. 

And I'm simply not willing to accept the assumptions used in the methods of calculating this are strong enough to make this claim of 4.5 billion years. I think students should be made aware that these assumptions usually represented as being highly likely are in fact not as solid of a foundation as they represent. Students of science first need to be taught how to view science. That is with skepticism. 

[El Luchador]

A very long video but a topic this complex needs long form discussion. 

[Plasmodium]

I did a quick perusal of the MT standards for science education.  Lots of areas demand different viewpoints and there is some focus on unsettled science.

[LJB]

healthy skepticism is your friend...

it really is just that easy...

[Nailbender]

1 hour ago, LJB said:

healthy skepticism is your friend...

it really is just that easy...

I don't believe you.