By now most wrestling fans have been through the brackets and seen the multitude of head-scratching seeds offered by the committee. Some, when looked at closely defy any and all explanation. For example the NCAA committee's formula simply cannot explain the seeding at 141 pounds where Devin Carter (Virginia Tech) sits behind Lavion Mayes (Missouri).
The formulas used were created in hopes of formulating an objective way to analyze the yearlong performance of more than 1000 wrestlers around Division I. When handling a massive amount of data this "objective" formula can help sort the majority of wrestlers into their general place, kind of like making sure all your playing cards are facing the right direction.
However, formulas -- drafted by a version of this same committee -- can NOT be solely responsible for the seeding of athletes. In sports like international judo, which uses a points system, points do result in ranking.That's public and known year-round In wrestling that doesn't exist and by nature a discussion must still occur. However that discussion seems to be artificially limited, and there is an outward refusal to analyze specific known data.
Two great examples of this emu-esque approach is to not consider prior year performance, or if losses are avenged.
Two-time NCAA champion Jesse Delgado of Illinois picked up three wins at the Big Ten Championships last weeekend in Columbus, but it still didn't earn him a seed at the NCAAs (Photo/Mark Beshey, The Guillotine)In wrestling the athletes remain the same year-to-year. Take for example Jesse Delgado. There is zero sense in not seeding a two-time defending NCAA champion who has had an injury-riddled season inside one of the nation's toughest conferences. To try to exclude him based on any part of the formula created ONLY for perfect scenarios is treason to logic. To make the finals Delgado will now likely need to wrestle the No. 8, No. 9, No. 4 and No. 1 seeds, a reality that's equally unfair to those seeded wrestlers.
Why even bother to seed a weight class if you knowingly create an imbalanced bracket? Where is the objectiveness in disregarding facts?
NCAA's Seeding Criteria
1. Head-to-Head Competition 25%
2. Quality Wins 20
3. Common Opponents 10%
4. RPI 10%
5. Coaches Rank 10%
6. Qualifying tournament placement 10%
7. Winning Percentage 10%
8. No. of matches at weight class 5%
The other point is earning back wins against opponents. Wrestling creates matchups that are sometimes won by creative wrestlers. And unlike many other sports, wrestling is unforgiving of mistakes. Does a wrestler losing a first matchup really not earn back his keep when he earns revenge in a future matchup? How can ignoring this scenario -- the one in which Jason Tsirtsis was pushed to the No.2 seed -- make any logical sense?
1. Head-to-Head Competition 25%
2. Quality Wins 20
3. Common Opponents 10%
4. RPI 10%
5. Coaches Rank 10%
6. Qualifying tournament placement 10%
7. Winning Percentage 10%
8. No. of matches at weight class 5%
For the die-hard fan the NCAA tournament will be an exciting display almost no matter the seeding. But for the athletes who have worked their whole lives for this tournament, an evenly and logically seeded tournament should be guaranteed. What happened this week in Indianapolis let down those wrestlers who expected a fair hearing of their accomplishments.
To your questions ...
Q: Do you believe that past NCAA credentials should be used when seeding the national tournament?
-- @Rhino184?
Foley: Yes. If the wrestler is an All-American or national champion from the previous year, that should be taken into account. Yes, it seems more subjective, but it can, especially in situations like Stieber's and Delgado's, eliminate a wackadoodle bracket.
Q: Did the Big 12 having only four teams, and thus taking some at-large bids, leave some good wrestlers at home?
-- @Will_J_157
Foley: Unlikely. The Big 12 has plenty of the nation's top wrestlers. Any of the quality wrestlers who would have been on the bubble had the Big 12 received two dozen automatics, now qualified a weight in their conference. In that way they may have even benefited from such a system.
The Big 12 does not have enough teams to qualify as an automatic qualifier conference. They will appeal for full membership, but probably won't be granted anything unless they can pick up a fifth team.
At 149 pounds, the champ didn't qualify, but the third and fourth-place finishers did.
The champ was Shayne Tucker of Oklahoma, who beat Gabe Moreno and who outplaced Josh Kindig, but Tucker stays at home.
Why would a kid like Tucker even want to compete?
From my understanding the Big 12 teams will be combining with the Western Wrestling Conference in 2015-2016. That might be a good move, it might not, I just don't know how it'll all play out. But I do know that I feel bad for Shayne Tucker more than I do anyone sitting on the bubble in another conference.
Q: Keeping in mind your relationship with United World Wrestling, and looking at the NCAA brackets, are decision-making processes more transparent in the organization formerly known as FILA, than NCAA wrestling? I mean, are they now more transparent? Cause the issue is transparency and in other words, FILA has been this great bugbear for the American wrestling fan, but now is the NCAA wrestling component worse?
-- Mike R.
Foley: I'd agree that United World Wrestling is simply a different organization than when it was called FILA. That there is a communications department is evidence enough that there has been progress in keeping the wrestling family informed of changes to the sport and administration. Are we perfect? Absolutely not. But the aim is for transparency.
One hindrance is that much of what goes on in international wrestling takes place among a decentralized system of federations and political power makers around the globe. For example, the quality of refereeing is difficult to maintain when there are 1600 worldwide and sometimes rule changes (a la "near takedown") are not being applied correctly.
The NCAA does not have that excuse, and I think you're right to see that they resemble FILA much more than UWW. The seeding issue has been well stated, but the bidding process of cities to host tournaments, rule changes and a multitude of other bureaucratic decisions never get parsed out by the communications department, ostensibly by directive.
Seeing as how all the NCAA Division I programs are in the USA, there is little that would ever be lost to cultural misinterpretation. However, there is plenty ceded to the established power brokers and the power of those who unwind the red tape.
Q: What do you think of the parity in the Big Ten Championships this year? I can't remember a time when there were champions from eight different schools and have (one of) the team champions win it without a single individual champion. Is this kind of parity good for the sport? I know everyone likes dynasties and dominating performances attract viewers. Can this kind of parity hurt the sport?
-- James F.
Foley: I think it's difficult to argue that more teams winning titles is bad the sport. Wrestling is reliant on donors and the accomplishments of programs big and small can help drive fundraising and friend-raising. Results at the conference and NCAA tournament can often mean the difference in thousands of dollars in donations, if not tens of thousands.
When it comes to popular perception, I DO think that too much parity can hurt the sport. There is a laziness that permeates the journalism world, and it has nothing to do with hours logged, but a lot to do with "How is this interesting to my readership?"
Should ESPN want to run a preview of the NCAA championship, what would be their title? I'm asking, because I'm pitching this exact thing right now. In 2013 I wrote an article on the Dake vs. Taylor finals. That was easier than not and did insane traffic for ESPN. This year? The team race is so wide open it might require a lot of faith on the part of the editorial team to allow me to craft something. Now imagine you are a writer who knows zero about the sport outside of Cael, Gable, Penn State and Iowa. Grasping for straws.
Overall, I like the parity, even though the spreading out of talent makes the sport more difficult to follow for the common fan. I guess the hope is that the spread will bring in more fans from individual programs and help the growth in that all politics is local kind of way.
(Go 'Hoos!)
Q: I was watching the EIWA tournament noticing MANY sudden victory matches not wrestled by heavyweights. They often went into the third overtime (Rideout after rideout forcing more OT)!! I was hearing the commentary saying, "As a referee you can't determine the match." We have referees call FALLS, stalling and fleeing the mat. Understood, the counter argument is, "In the rideout you are allowed to stall." Which is true according to the rules. Should refs call more stalling calls? Should they be the "deciding factor" if a wrestler's first move off the whistle in neutral is STEPPING BACK?
I think I have told you this before, but in Judo, the referees call "Shido" if someone is bent over or is fleeing any type of grip as long as the criteria is met. It doesn't matter if it is 30 seconds with a tie score. They call it as they see it. Judo is not in trouble (Olympics) because the more upright rules and stalling calls pretty much ensures someone goes flying! However Judo has strict rules on what coaches can say.
Time for a culture change in wrestling officiating?
-- Dan C.
Foley: Fans on Twitter and those in the media have reiterated the chant we started here on the mailbag a few months ago: #KillRT
The rule has backfired and caused the sport to turn to molasses. Like any unintended consequence, the desire to produce a sport with more falls by incentivizing control has now turned into a game of competitive leeching.
But will the NCAA listen?
SHIDO!
Q: What is your perspective on adding stats to wrestling's media presence (reporting, online team pages, season duals, season tournaments, postseason duals, tournaments, etc.)? While I believe rule changes are inevitable for college wrestling and making it more exciting, what about appreciating and finding new ways to enjoy/compare/discuss our unique sport? Similar to baseball, would be great to look up stats (creating more engaging internet experiences with our sport) pre and post duals. Pins, takedowns (per period), back points (per period), escapes (per period), takedowns scored on reshot, etc. I think establishing a base of the right stats could help our sport further. Great coaches discuss these things with their wrestlers. Extend this to the fans!
-- Mr. J.
Foley: There is room for stats! I know that there have been attempts by plenty of people to get this done, but there would need to be a widely accepted scoring system that could immediately feed into a central database. Without a central system it's just not possible to know who gets how many takedowns at the Reno Invitational.
MULTIMEDIA HALFTIME
Link: Podcast with Coach Steve Garland after Virginia's unlikely ACC tournament victory
Match of the 2015 Women's Wrestling World Cup (wait to see how this ends)
Q: One of the biggest stories not talked about in the wrestling world is the reinstatement of the Fresno State program. Usually, wrestling only gets noticed when a program is cut, but with addition of Grand Canyon University in 2017 after completing its transition and Fresno State targeting 2018 for a restart, what team will be next to join the Division I ranks?
-- Rocco L.
Foley: My fault here. I haven't really been jumping as high as I should for the Fresno State addition. This is a monster sign for the growth of the sport and more should be made of the commitment by former head coach Dennis Deliddo, who has been relentless in pressuring the administration.
Coach Deliddo will always be best known for what he's accomplished on the mats, what he's done in helping orchestrate this comeback should be larger than a footnote. I'm thrilled there will a monument to this man's commitment to the sport of wrestling and the university he loves so much.
As Fresno State alum and Cal Poly head wrestling coach Brendan Buckley said, "Deliddo is THE REASON that Fresno is coming back. He's the epitome of the school's mascot -- A BULLDOG!"
Q: I should have asked this last week but being a PA guy I can't help but wonder what happened to the Alton brothers, namely Dylan?
-- @Robbybobbi?
Foley: Brother, I don't know. Nothing told to me was salacious, just some talk that they were beaten out for their positions and battled injuries. I'm disappointed that they didn't finish their careers on top. There was always a lot of pressure on them to succeed and with weight cutting, stamina issues and a team filled with doers, it just never came together for the home-state guys.
I wish them the best in the future. Hopefully they stay in the sport!
Q: I can't stand seeing a growing trend in high school wrestling where the winning or losing wrestler is running off the mat before the winner's hand is raised. I'm thinking this started with Iowa and the trend is continuing to grow. Every wrestler knows that when the match ends, the winner must get his hand raised. I don't know why wrestlers are trying to get off the mat before this happens, especially when they win. Sometimes the ref has to force the winner to stay out there. As a coach, seeing the losing wrestler sprint off the mat only leads me to believe they did not leave it all out on the mat. In freestyle and Greco, the winner or loser never is allowed to run off no matter what happened during the match. I would love to see a rule change in high school where the wrestlers are not allowed to leave the small circle before the winner's hand is raised. Thoughts?
-- Tim H.
Foley: My favorite story from wrestling is watching the Navy coach Bruce Burnett walk up to a wrestler in the midst of a hissy fit after being eliminated at NCAAs. Coach walks up with his hands behind his back as this wrestler screams and cries and punches walls and kicks headgears. Coach looks at him and says "Where was all this energy a moment ago, John?"
Then just walks away.
You're right. You must stand there for two turns as your opponent's hand is raised. You are also mandated to exit via the opposing coach's corner. This happens 99 percent of the time and when it doesn't or if there is a flagrant misconduct the wrestler (and nation) is given a yellow card. Guess what? Those can cost your team $5,000!
The running off the mat thing is totally obnoxious, and though it might have started with Iowa it's now a part of too many team's emotional aesthetic. Forget that they should be a little more tired, but where is the sportsmanship in running away like a spoiled brat? Losing stinks, but that's not anyone's fault but your own. Coaches, parents and other wrestlers should do a better job and ask their teammates who run away, "Why are you acting like such a loser?"
Being a man requires staring down failure and it's about time we start instilling that lesson in our young athletes.
RANT OF THE WEEK
By Ismael M.
I went to our regional tournament last weekend and was totally disappointed by the wrestling. The finals matches began at 145 pounds. Between 145 pounds to 285 pounds there more hand fighting than takedown attempts. It wasn't until 106 when the dancing stopped. I then watched the early rounds of the states and it was much of the same. There were multiple overtime matches where the score was 1-1. Many could barely ride, which made it worse when you saw them on their feet.
The only time you saw shooting was when the wrestlers became desperate. Then I watched the Big Ten finals and watched Nathan Tomasello do a great impression of Mike Jackson's moonwalk, not that Thomas Gilman was doing much but pushing.
Tomasello didn't shoot again after he got his takedown. What made it even more of a joke was during his interview he was asked what he did to win and he said, "I kept up the pressure throughout the match." It's a shame to watch. I also don't understand why refs let a guy hold on to a single leg while doing absolutely nothing but trying to get riding time, not even attempting to come up, yet if he went up to his feet he would get banged for stalling (maybe).
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