Tim HartungHartung has coaching experience at three of the nation's top collegiate wrestling programs: Minnesota (five seasons), Iowa (two seasons), and is now in his first season as an assistant coach Iowa State.
RevWrestling.com recently caught up with Hartung to talk to him about his career at Minnesota, his international career, his brief stint at Iowa and whether or not he still harbors any hard feeling toward the program, his relationship with Cael Sanderson, and what the Cyclones need to do to challenge for a national title in March.
Coming out of high school, you were a one-time Wisconsin state champion, yet went on to become one of the all-time greats at Minnesota. You exceeded a lot of people's expectations coming out of high school. Did you exceed your expectations?
Hartung: For sure. That's an easy question. I was really uncertain coming out of high school what I wanted to do. I was a three-sport athlete. I played football and baseball. I almost signed at St. Cloud State, so that I could play both sports. The door to Minnesota kind of opened late in the recruiting process of my senior year. I didn't even really know college wrestling coming out of high school. I didn't follow it much. I was wrapped up in a lot of other things.
When I went on to Minnesota, it was definitely a crapshoot for me. I was kind of underdeveloped. I came in behind a lot of the people I came in with … so my expectations were just to go up there and see what I could do. I really didn't have any goals past that. And part of that was that I had a lot of people around me who said, 'You're not Division I caliber. You won't make it there.' It was an interesting decision. What made it even more special was that I got a chance to prove a lot of people wrong … and I got a chance to prove a lot to myself. I learned a lot about setting your mind towards something … and anything is possible. So it was a good experience.
What's something about J Robinson that most people don't know?
Hartung: He comes across as a pretty hard-nosed guy. I think a lot of people in the wrestling world, and a lot of people who know him from a business or wrestling side, kind of think he's a really intense, hard-nosed guy. And he is. But there's a whole side to him where he's pretty tender, too. He's an emotional guy. He cares a lot. If he has a good relationship with you, he cares about you.
Even since I've left there, I stay in touch with him quite a bit. I know that if I ever needed any help in any way, he would be there for me. I think a lot of people might not know that he's really a great man behind all of the intense things. He's always in the paper. I think a lot of people maybe get the impression that he's this hard-nosed guy who maybe doesn't have any feelings. But he's really a tender guy if you get to know him and do the things you're supposed to for him.
You have obviously developed a relationship over the years with Minnesota head assistant coach Marty Morgan. He is expected by many to be the eventual successor to J Robinson at Minnesota. If given an opportunity, what kind of head coach do you expect Marty to be?
Hartung: He's going to be a great coach for sure. He just has such a good understanding of how to communicate with athletes, how to motivate them, how to peak them, how to train them, how to individualize is probably the best thing I've noticed about him. Brandon Eggum and I used to compete with each other all the time, we practiced together all the time, and he would have us doing completely different things. I just think he understands that each guy is completely different … and what he needs is important, not necessarily what the whole needs the whole time.
He's really doing a lot of things. J has kept him around for 14 or 15 years for a reason. He's a great recruiter. He was the biggest person who steered my career. I think back … and I model a lot the things I do after the way he treated with me. I know that he'll do a good job once he gets a chance there. I'm sure that everybody in the Minnesota wrestling nation kind of expects that to happen.
When you look back on your collegiate career at Minnesota, is there a certain memory that sticks out most in your mind?
Tim HartungEven though I won the national title individually that year, it was really disappointing. I still have the picture hanging up of the second-place trophy picture … and there were a lot of disappointed faces. It was a really heart-wrenching loss to lose by two points. Even though I won it individually, it was just really, really bitter. It would have capped off the greatest career … for a group of kids to come in and build a program like that over five years and then leave with a national title … and we didn't get that opportunity. We were second again. We still talk about it when we get together. It's one of those things that will be in our minds forever.
Internationally, you won the U.S. Nationals, were a U.S. World Team member in 2002, and placed several times at the U.S. Nationals and World Team Trials. How did you come to you decision to hang up the competitive shoes? And was it harder than you expected?
Tim Hartung (Photo/The Guillotine)As far as making the decision to be done, I knew that it was time to be done. I just knew that it was time because of the strains and the stresses of training and just the mentality of the whole sport was taking a toll on me. I think back, I don't regret anything. I'm glad it's done. I don't have any aspirations to make any type of comeback or anything. I enjoy coaching. It's fun to worry about other guys now.
You spent two seasons at Iowa coaching under Jim Zalesky. Zalesky was recently quoted in some Iowa newspapers talking about how the administration handled his firing. The following is a recent quote from Zalesky: "No one ever said thanks for putting your time in, nobody ever said thank you for anything. I don't respect a place like that, so I really lost a lot of respect for the University of Iowa as an institution." Do you personally harbor any hard feelings toward Iowa with how the administration handled the situation?
Hartung: Obviously, I don't to the extent that Jim does. That was his life. That was his program. He grew up there. He went through the program. He left for Minnesota for three years and came back to be Gable's head assistant. I was only there for two years, so for me to say anything near the things that he has said, and mean them to the same extent, would be ridiculous. But the two seasons I spent underneath him, I couldn't be around a nicer guy, a coach who cared about his athletes, and a coach who tried his best to make that program No. 1 again. Everything that he is saying is one-hundred percent accurate. The way that administration handled our coaching staff … and lack of respect and gratitude shown, everything he has said is exactly on.
As far as my feelings on it, I don't regret anything. I got a chance to work with two great people. I learned a lot as a coach. It really taught me a lot of new things to be around those guys and see a different philosophy and style. But from an administrative standpoint, I lost a ton of respect for them. Not the program necessarily, but the school and the way they handled things. Any coach they're supporting should have their one-hundred and ten percent backing, until they fire him and hire somebody new. He went through several years before I got there, and then the two years that I was there, with no support at all. You were always looking over your shoulder because you didn't know who was watching you. So it was a really interesting coaching situation from that standpoint.
There has been a lot said and made of the Iowa-Iowa State rivalry. At the press conference following the dual on Dec. 3, Tom Brands said the following: "I had Mark Perry for a year here, and then Hartung had him for two years, and we're still working out the kinks in him." When things like that are said, does it bother you? Or is it just something that's said in the heat of the battle?
Hartung: It doesn't bother me at all. It actually makes me laugh. When a coach allows a guy to take a timeout when he's not hurt … granted, Perry did it when Jim, Troy, and I were there too, when a kid does that, I don't care who has coached him in the past, I don't care who coached him five or 10 years ago, who is coaching him now is allowing the kid to do that. For him to point at me and tell me that I coached him for two years and that he's only coached him for one year, it still goes straight to the head coach. And especially for a program that has scrutinized teams and individuals for years for taking timeouts when they're not hurt, they're basically trying to take the blame off themselves.
I'll take the blame. When I was coaching Perry and he did that against (Matt) Nagel, it hurt. I was embarrassed. I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone who had him before me. It was partly me for allowing him to do that. They just need to take ownership for that. It's not a personal thing. I just kind of laugh whenever things like that happen.
What's a bigger rivalry, in your opinion: Iowa-Minnesota or Iowa-Iowa State?
Hartung: It would definitely have to be Iowa-Iowa State, just because it's an intrastate rivalry. You look all over the country, all of those Florida-Florida State's in football. All the intrastate rivalries are a little more intense, just because it's the intrastate type thing. During my career at Minnesota, it was pretty heated. It was a heck of a rivalry. And I think it's probably going to start up again, especially now with Tom and Cael at the helms, it's going to be the bigger rivalry for sure in the future, I would think.
How long have you known Cael Sanderson on a personal level? And has your relationships developed?
Hartung: I started kind of training with him in 2002, so I would say that I've known him four or five years now. That's kind of how our relationship started. After college, when we started going to the training camps, it was pretty natural for us to work out a lot together because we were one weight class apart. He came to Minneapolis a few times to train with me up there. I came down to Ames a few times. And then I went to Athens as his training partner. We e-mailed a lot and just stayed in touch, talked a lot at college tournaments over the last couple years when I was coaching at Iowa and he was at Iowa State. That's just kind of how our relationship developed and grew. It was kind of ironic, the same day that Bobby (Douglas) resigned and Cael took over, it was the same day Coach Zalesky was fired.
What has it been like working with Cael in the coaching arena?
Hartung: It has been really good. I've been very impressed with all of the things he has done. Everybody has heard it during the process leading into him getting the head coaching job, and since he has become a head coach, everyone says, 'Good athletes don't always make good coaches.' You know, I've heard that over the last couple years. He's doing a great job. It has been fun working with him. He keeps it fun. He divvies out responsibilities really well. He doesn't try to take everything and do it all himself. He wants to win. He wants to use everybody to their full potential. He'll do anything to win. And when you're driven to that extent, he's going to do whatever it takes. It's just been a really good situation so far. It's been fun.
You have been an assistant coach for several years. Do you have aspirations of becoming a head coach?
Tim HartungAfter 2004, I was actually going to move on and get into the athletic administration world. But after the Trials, I didn't quite feel like moving on. And then the Iowa job became available. When Steiner and Zalesky were calling me, it kind of felt like it was happening for a reason. And then when I got fired at Iowa, Cael hired me over here, it kind of felt like it was happening for a reason. I'm just going to kind of wait and see how things go. Once I start having some kids, see how that goes, and just kind of see where it takes me.
Kurt Backes dropped an early season dual to Iowa. But since then he's rebounded nicely. He recently pinned Josh Glenn to reach the finals of the Midlands. What has been the biggest difference in Backes' wrestling lately compared to the early part of the season?
Hartung: It's a tough thing to answer because he has struggled in the past with different things. But the main thing that we've been trying to hit home with him is, Hey, it's just wrestling. It's just a sport. It's only a brief period of your life. It's not life or death. It's not that important. Go out there and give it your all, have fun, and whatever happens, happens. If it's your best effort, that's all we want. We've just been trying to keep it real basic.
Cael does a great job of doing that. There's not a lot of pressure. All the pressure that comes on our guys is what they're putting on themselves. All that we're asking is their best effort, leave it all out on the mat, give yourself the best opportunity to perform. And I think him just taking that simple approach has really helped him. He's smiling and having fun. It looks like he's really enjoying himself again. It seems that he's just taking a simpler approach to everything and realizing that it's not that big of a deal. Your family still loves you no matter what. The things that are important will be important no matter what. It just seems that he's kind of buying into that, so that's good.
You've been around some talented upper-weight wrestlers throughout your career. How does Jake Varner compare to wrestlers like Brandon Eggum and Damion Hahn when they were freshmen? And how great can he be?
Jake Varner (Photo/John Sachs)One of the things about Varner is that he expects to win now. His mentality is, 'I'm going to go out there and dominate.' He's lost a few matches, but he comes off the mat thinking he could've and should've won. His expectations of himself are so high as a freshman. That's one of the things that I think is the hardest to instill in someone, just that confidence, and he kind of already has that. I would expect him to really have a great career.
Iowa State won the Midlands title. As a coaching staff, were you happy with the team's effort out in Evanston, Illinois?
Hartung: For sure. One of the best things that is kind of unfolding is the chemistry and how things are coming together for us as a team. We have six freshmen, so we knew that our best performances weren't going to be in November and December, and they had to keep improving to get to where we wanted to be in March. And that's kind of what we've been seeing. That's been really encouraging, just to see the progress.
We went into Iowa City and kind of let the pressure get to us. We didn't win any close matches, so it looked like we got routed, but we still saw a ton of good things. Then we came back and had a really good match against Minnesota, blanked UNI, and went into the Midlands. Everybody seems to be making progress, getting more confident, and wrestling harder. Every week we're working on new things that guys are struggling with … and the next match you see them doing it. So it's just really neat to see the progress and the steps our guys are making.
You have the NWCA/Cliff Keen National Duals this weekend. What do you try to take away from this event?
Hartung: With such a young team, it's just experience. You get a different feel. You're not wrestling individually. Each time you're going to go in and battle as a team, which I think is really good for us to just keep building that team unity and team togetherness to help us the rest of the season. It's just experience.
Hopefully we'll only have four matches, but if we do lose … we'll get five, six, seven matches. We'll be together as a team. Our three seniors (Trent Paulson, Travis Paulson, and Kurt Backes) really did a great job at the Midlands. I'll give them a ton of credit for our finish there. They led the way with bonus points, pins, and all three were in the finals. If our three seniors can do that for us day in, day out, the young guys are eager to follow, so it's going to be a good thing.
Last question: What's it going to take for the Iowa State Cyclones to win the NCAA title at the Palace of Auburn Hills in Michigan?
Hartung: I think just steady progression. If our guys continue to get better, and they are, they're improving daily. If they just continue with that mindset and keep getting better and better, gaining experience, gaining confidence, no injuries, we stay healthy, it's just a matter of making them believe when we step into the NCAA Championships that we can win the tournament, going after bonus points, all the things you need to do, just have them believe in that when it's time to believe. They're definitely moving in the right direction. We're not there yet, but we're definitely heading in the right direction.
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