One-on-One with Rob Koll

Rob Koll, who is in his 16th season as head coach at Cornell, has led the Big Red to nine Ivy League titles, crowned four individual NCAA champions, 27 All-Americans, and 23 EIWA champions. Cornell is poised to challenge for the NCAA team title this season with six All-American on its roster.

RevWrestling.com recently talked to Koll about Troy Nickerson's status, Mike Grey's move back down to 133, what makes Jordan Leen so good, what Mack Lewnes is going to need to do to win the NCAA title, how Adam Frey's battle with cancer has affected his life, why he thinks the NWCA should do away with the All-Star Classic, and much more.

Rob Koll (Photo/Danielle Hobeika)

Troy Nickerson started the season at 125 and wrestled 133 against Penn State, but hasn't competed since. What his status? And when do you expect him to return to the lineup?

Koll: As soon as possible. He's just struggling with some injuries. We don't want to rush him back too soon … because at the end of the day, nobody is going to care how he does at the Southern Scuffle or Vegas. They're going to remember what he did at nationals. To be honest with you, it's a day-by-day situation and we just don't know. He takes two steps forward and sometimes three steps back. We just want to keep moving forward instead of constantly setting ourselves back. So I don't want to rush the recovery.

Compare the Troy Nickerson who placed third at the 2007 NCAAs to the Troy Nickerson who is on your roster now. Where do you think his biggest gains have come during that time away from competition?

Koll: That's really hard to say because I haven't seen him wrestle in competition but a couple matches. I wish I could answer that question. I know in the practice room he has significantly improved. He's much more dominant and doesn't give up points anymore. Whereas in the past, he would concede positions and points. He's not doing that anymore. My main concern with Troy is to get him physically healthy so that he can have a great mental frame of mind going into nationals.

Mike Grey had an outstanding freshman season. This season, Grey won the Binghamton Open, but struggled against Penn State and then again a day later at the Body Bar Invitational while competing at 141. Now he's moving back down to 133. What went into Grey's decision to move back down to 133?

Koll: Well, you just answered it (laughing). The fact that he struggled at 141. He won the Binghamton Open, but didn't look good doing it. Ever since he has gone down, he's just a totally different animal. I'm one hundred percent confident the next time you see Mike Grey he will be vastly improved from the Penn State match and Body Bar. And he's at 133. I think sometimes a person has to train doubly hard to get down to weight … and that makes him that much better. I think in Mike's case, that's the situation. Whereas other people, if they don't have to work so hard, they don't wear themselves out. Mike has to work that hard to have the confidence that he's in just unbelievable shape and bigger and stronger than anybody he wrestles.

Will he be back for the Southern Scuffle?

Koll: Yes.

Mack Lewnes placed fourth at the NCAAs last season as a freshman. He has been very impressive this season. But he has a history of close losses to Nick Marable of Missouri, including one this season at the NWCA All-Star Classic. What's going to be the key for Mack to win an NCAA title this season?

Mack Lewnes has struggled with Missouri's Nick Marable throughout his career (Photo/Tech-Fall.com)

Koll: Well, hopefully Marable is on the other side of the bracket and gets beat (laughing). (Mack) just needs to keep doing what he does every single day, which is work incredibly hard. I've never seen him get out of position in practice. Every waking moment, he's trying to get better. Whether it's coming in and doing extra cardio work or doing extra lifts or drills, he's just an absolute coach's dream come true. He will continue to improve as the season progresses. I have no doubt whatsoever. I think he's the guy to beat. I'm obviously very, very biased. He has to figure out a way to score on Marable. That's the one guy who has given him trouble the last two years. But we'll see him again at the dual meet, so hopefully we'll have it figured out by then.

As a competitor, you competed twice in the NWCA All-Star Classic. You have coached several wrestlers in the event during your career, including two this season. What is your opinion of the current format of having the event in the early part of the season and the matches being exhibition matches?

Koll: I don't think they should even have it anymore. If it doesn't count, then it doesn't mean anything to me. It's one way or the other. How can you say this doesn't count when every pollster counts it? So it only counts if you win, I guess. But if you lose, it counts against you. Why would Mack be ranked second in so many polls? When in theory he's undefeated. It doesn't make any sense. When I wrestled, it was East-West. It had some meaning to it. It was interesting. People cared. There was some loyalty. There is always that rivalry. That's gone. If they're not going to bring back the East-West, then get rid of the whole thing.

Jordan Leen has had a great career at Cornell. He's a two-time All-American and NCAA champion. He's intelligent and well spoken. He's a pre-med major. He also has a strong faith. Describe what the experience has been like not only coaching Jordan, but also getting to know him on a personal level in the time you have spent with him.

Jordan Leen, who hails from Tennessee, is a two-time All-American and the defending NCAA champion at 157. Being loose and relaxed is what makes Leen so good because he doesn't get nervous, says Rob Koll (Photo/Tech-Fall.com)

Koll: Well, I've known Jordan since he was about knee high to a grasshopper. I met him when he was about 4 or 5 years old running around his father's kitchen in Garden City, Kansas. I was recruiting Jason Roach, who was one of our top recruits. I went out to see him. I remember going over to the coach's house and this little red-haired hellion was running all around the kitchen. That was the first time I met Jordan. And then I remember seeing him on video. Coming out of Tennessee, he wasn't highly recruited. But I just really loved what I saw. And then we hit off really well when I spoke to him. And there's been no looking back, obviously. He's a very intelligent wrestler. People really underrate him. For some reason, they don't want to give the kid any credit. Winning nationals was certainly not a fluke last year. He has two losses this year, but the first match … I don't know how to say this without sounding it sounding like sour grapes, I mean, it was one of the poorest officiated matches I've seen in my life. He probably should have won by four … had it not been in someone else's hometown. Against Burroughs, that match could have gone either way.

I don't know why people for some reason tend not to give him credit. And then recently, I don't know where I saw it, but people were commenting on how he's cocky or something because of how he wrestles. He just has a blast out there. Being loose and relaxed is what makes him so good because he doesn't get nervous. He's very content … win or lose, he's just going to go as hard as he can. He knows he's done everything he can do. He has a phenomenal attitude. He is really enjoying the experience. I wish every one of my wrestlers could be as poised and relaxed as Jordan. He is his own best coach. He's very, very intelligent. If he loses to somebody, he'll study those videos and have a game plan the next time he wrestles him. So I'm not too concerned about those early losses, although there are so many good kids in that weight class, you know, flip a coin, and anyone can come out on top.

Josh Arnone was an All-American two seasons ago at 184, but battled injuries last season. He hasn't competed yet this season. What's his status?

Koll: Josh is back. He wrestled live today in practice again. He will be wrestling at the Southern Scuffle and he looks really good. I held him out longer than he needed to be held out this year intentionally. He was cleared to go in early November. I just didn't see a need to rush him back in there. Last year, I think we pushed him a little too quickly. We weren't going to make that same mistake twice.

You have six All-Americans on your roster this season, including an NCAA champion and an NCAA finalist. Obviously, the expectations are extremely high for Cornell this season. Do you feel more pressure this season as a coach compared to past seasons?

Photo/Tech-Fall.com

Koll: That's hard to say because I don't feel it externally. But I certainly put in on myself. Anyone who is competitive is going to put a lot of pressure on themselves. It's not pressure … it's excitement. I talk to other coaches, I say, you know, I'm really blessed and fortunate to be able to coach at Cornell because win or lose, our alumni find the good in our performance. And I'm not just saying that. It's sincere.

We'll go out and look awful and they'll tell me how good our uniforms look. I mean, they're going to find something good in everything we do. It makes it a pleasure to coach here. Whereas some of my peers, these poor guys, whether they're being attacked personally or on the message boards, you can't win. And these are some guys who are incredibly successful coaches. And at the same time, coaches who are making as much as high school teachers with no job security and an ungodly amount of pressure. So it can be a thankless job. I don't think people truly appreciate it. It's also awfully fun. I'm fortunate to be in a situation where the pressure I feel is coming from within.

It seems that you as a coach often times take a more cautious approach to injuries when it comes to competing in regular season events. You had several starters out for the Cliff Keen Las Vegas Invitational. It doesn't seem like you put as much emphasis on regular season events, including duals and major tournaments, as other coaches. Your focus seems to be much more about getting your athletes ready to compete in March. Is that an accurate assessment?

Cory Cooperman and Rob Koll coach Jordan Leen to a victory over Iowa State's Cyler Sanderson at the 2008 NWCA All-Star Classic held at St. John Arena in Columbus, Ohio (Photo/Tech-Fall.com)

Koll: Yeah, but you can thank Tim Flynn for that. Year after year, we would have this great dual meet team in November. I remember Tim Flynn and Lou Rosselli would come out and tease Tom Shifflet and me mercilessly. They would be like, "Yay, guys, you have one heck of a dual meet team." It finally dawned up on me, I was like, 'You know what, who freaking cares?' We were ranked in the top 10 in the country, but nobody cared. You can't peak for six months. I think a lot of coaches look at very single dual meet as a national championship … and every single tournament as a national championship. When you look at it that way, one, it's extremely depressing and hard to recover from a loss if you think every match is a national championship, although you may wrestle that match a higher level. But the problem is, you're basically trying to peak for six months. You simply can't do it. I did make a conscious decision that until they change the format to make the dual meets count more than the national championships, I'm not going to perceive it that way.

I do have other goals. It's not like I completely forgo early season competition. Things that count for us at Cornell. We're supposed to win the Ivy League Championships … and we do. My goal is obviously is to win the Ivies, get as many guys to nationals, and win the nationals. So you'll find that we do get guys in the lineup when it comes down to the Ivy League Championships. The Eastern championship doesn't mean that much to me, although I look at that as a national qualifier. Now that we have the ability to win the national dual meet championships, you'll see that we put a lot of emphasis on that as well. So I'm not just going to let that go. But, hey, if the best you can do is seventh, I'm not going to sacrifice our Ivies and NCAAs so that we can place sixth instead of seventh. But now that you have a chance to win it, yeah, then I'm really going to try to peak them for that championship.

You also have to remember, I don't have anybody here on scholarship. And there's a different relationship that we have with the kids because of that. Kids are here for the right reasons. Some of them will hopefully want to make the Olympic team, but all of them want to be prepared for their careers in medicine, engineering, or law. Despite what some people say, you can't go back and become a doctor after college … because you'll never get into medical school. So to sacrifice the next 60 years of happiness for four years is foolhardy and unnecessary. Having a great education and having a national championship experience, I know the two aren't mutually exclusive. And the great thing is, high school kids know that now. We don't have to beat down their doors to have them come look at us now.

Cory Cooperman is in his second season on your staff. People know about his credentials as a wrestler from his days at Blair Academy and Lehigh. But what does he bring to the table as a coach?

Koll: Cory is a wrestling savant. He's our little wrestling "Rain Man." The guy has as much technique as anyone I've ever been around, so it's really neat. Sometimes I really have to pull him back because he goes too much. There is only so much you can do at practice. Realistically, you have 30 some guys on the team and only so many of them can do the things he's doing. So he's had to pull back a little bit … because if you're not athletic enough or don't have the experience to do some of things he's able to do, you're wasting your time showing it to them. But he has really gotten a good grasp on that. He has been a super asset.

Another one of your assistants, Damion Hahn, was runner-up at the 2008 U.S. Olympic Team Trials. Does Hahn still have plans to compete in freestyle?

Damion Hahn (Photo/Tech-Fall.com)

Koll: Give him two years and let him see how it goes. He's so darn good. He's a different type of coach than Cory. They're very different. Damion is much more basic in his approach, but he's also a bigger guy. So it's a great mix to have someone around the middle weights with Cory. I have Travis Lee on the lighter weights. And I have Damion on the upper weights. I don't think there is a school that has a better staff than what we have. Not only are they great technicians and great coaches, but they are just really good people and very intelligent. On top of that, I still have Tyler Baier in town, who was a national finalist for me. Clint Wattenberg, who has been on the U.S. National Team, is the strength coach and nutritionist. I just have a wonderful group of people here interacting with our kids.

You mentioned Travis Lee. You coached him to a pair of NCAA titles. Following his collegiate career, he wrestled some freestyle and had a victory over Olympic silver medalist Stephen Abas. At one point, he seemed to be on the brink of breaking through and challenging for a spot on the World or Olympic team. But he battled some injuries, which prevented him from competing. Is he done competing?

Koll: Yeah, he's done. He went over to Ukraine, got hit with an arm spin, came down on his head, and severally herniated three discs all in alignment. Every specialist we took him to told him that he should never wrestle again. He lost feeling in both hands, so it was pretty serious. It wasn't like he had a stinger. He literally went unconscious and lost feeling in both hands. Barring a medical miracle, he won't be competing anymore. Although, in our room, he can still whip anybody up to 149. And on a good day, probably 157.

If Travis would have been able to stay healthy and continued competing, how great do you think he could have been in freestyle?

Koll: I really believe he was too athletic for anybody. I don't mean to take anything away from anybody on the United States team because they're very good. But it had been a long time since he had lost to anybody in the United States. So I would have been surprised if he didn't make the Olympic team. But anybody who was competing for that spot would beg to differ. I don't want to be disrespectful to anybody else. Not that I don't think they are that good, it's just that I think Travis is that great.

One of your wrestlers, Adam Frey, has been courageously battling cancer since March. How has his battle with cancer affected your life?

Adam Frey (Photo/Danielle Hobeika)

Koll: It puts things in perspective. You have to constantly remind the kids that as bad as it may seem with grades, weight, or whatever, it could certainly be a lot worse. I've been at this for 20 years. I've lost many wrestlers though accidents and tragedies. Life is very, very temporary. You don't want to waste any opportunities. That's really the message we try to get through to these guys. You may never have a chance at a national title. Individually, these guys may never have a chance to win a national title.

One of Adam's main goals in life it to get back here and win a national title. That's one of the things he wants to do as much as anything. Almost on his death bed, that's still important to him. These guys have to remember that it can be taken away from you very, very quickly, so don't waste this opportunity. Hopefully Adam will be back next year. Based on everything we hear, there's no reason that he can't be back. But who knows if he'll be able to get back to the same level. So we're really hoping he can. It really puts everything in perspective. Anytime you have a struggle, you have to say, it could be a lot worse.

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