Joey Clark (Photo/Sherdog.com)RevWresting.com recently caught up with the 32-year-old Clark and talked to him about his experiences both as a Greco-Roman wrestler for the U.S. Marines and as an MMA fighter, how he expects former wrestling stars Marcus LeVesseur and Joe Warren to fare in MMA, what his younger brother, Jake, has meant to his career, why he made the decision to retire from MMA, and much more.
You spent a number of years competing on the All-Marine Greco-Roman wrestling team. What was that experience like for you?
Clark: As far as being a wrestler and being able to be on the Marine Corps wrestling team, it is probably one of the best experiences. First off, all your trips are completely paid for. You get to do something you love by wrestling a couple times a day. And you actually get paid to do it as well. It was the best experience that I could have ever had as far as being a wrestler.
How did the opportunity come about to compete in MMA? Did you know anything about it prior to getting involved?
Clark: When I got back from the military, I was going to be an air traffic controller. I was an air traffic controller for three out of the eight years I was in the Marine Corps. The other five years I wrestled. When I got out of the service, I was applying for federal air traffic control jobs all over the country. About a year and a half went by and I didn't get any jobs. I was getting frustrated. I didn't understand why. I wasn't even getting responses. I was bouncing at a couple bars just trying to earn some money when I got out of the service. When I went to work one day, a guy at the front said, "When you arrive, Boss told me to tell you to take your shirt off and get out of here." I was like, "What?" So I called the boss and said, "Hey, what's going on?" The boss said, "A year in jail and a felony sound familiar to you?" I said, "No." Anyway, he didn't believe me. I was some kid just out of the military. I come to find out that I have a felony on my record that I had no idea about. Someone did identify theft to me while I was in the service. So when I got out of the service and was trying to apply for federal jobs, my applications just kept getting thrown to the side.
Along the way, I started fighting to make some extra money because I couldn't get the job I wanted. So I was bouncing and fighting. I used to sell a lot of tickets when I was fighting. That's how we made our money. We would sell tickets to people, have them come to the fight, and then maybe make fifty percent of the ticket value. At that time, one of my buddies said to me, "Instead of selling tickets, why don't you start selling houses?" That's how I got into real estate. So, as much as I wanted to be an air traffic controller, I ended up fighting and selling tickets, and it just kind of rolled me right into the real estate market.
How much did your extensive wrestling background help you in MMA?
Clark: It's the best background to have. I think it's easier to teach a wrestler how to box, kick box, or do Jiu-Jitsu than it is to teach a boxer how to wrestle, or a kick boxer how to wrestle, or a Jiu-Jitsu guy how to wrestle. You have a very good sense of your base, how to manipulate other people's bodies, and slow people down. So it's a great advantage.
It seems like Greco-Roman wrestlers have gone on to have more success than freestyle wrestlers in MMA. Names like Randy Couture, Dan Henderson, and Matt Lindland immediately come to mind. Is that merely a coincidence? Or do you think the transition to MMA is easier for Greco-Roman wrestlers as opposed to freestyle wrestlers?
Joey Clark (Photo/13twentythree.com)Compare the cardiovascular or conditioning needed in wrestling compared to MMA. Do you get more tired competing in wrestling or MMA?
Clark: Well, my last fight I could have used a lot more conditioning! I think the rules to wrestling are a little bit different now. But I remember when I would wrestle like a five-minute match, the muscles in my fingers would even be tired. The conditioning is very similar. The only difference is that in wrestling you are not getting punched in the face. When somebody is swinging for the fences on your face it kind of throws off your conditioning a little bit.
The sport of MMA seemed to be really exploding when you first started fighting back in 2003. How did the sport of MMA evolve or change from when you fist got involved to its present state?
Clark: Yeah, it really was exploding. I jumped into MMA at a good time. The fan base really wanted more of it … just because of the violence of it. One thing that I like is that finally here in Minnesota, and in most other states, we have commissions in place. I remember when I first started fighting there were no blood tests or anything like that. As a fighter, you're out there making a couple thousand bucks or something, but there are some high risks involved. Now with the commissions in place, there is mandatory blood testing. If you go out there and fight someone who has something … all of a sudden, next thing you know, their blood is all over you. For $2,000, what just happened? You got infected with something. It's great that they have that stuff in place. I think it's very dangerous unless there are commissions in place.
Clark: Tony Grygelko is offering a great product to the people. I was getting involved with the promotional side of things as well as I was stepping away from it. I'm probably still going to be involved in the promotional side of things with MMA. Tony has done a great job with the events. He just needs to keep driving forward with the promotions. It is something that the people want. You just have to keep putting good fights in front of them. When I fought B.J. Lacy in the last fight, I personally wanted that fight. I took that fight because I thought it would probably bring a pretty good crowd. We are both from St. Paul. He has his style and I have mine. I just thought it would make for a good show. Instead of having these fights where they are very lopsided, I would like to see two guys go against each other who are both very tough. That's what people want to see. I know Tony would say the same thing.
You had an outstanding MMA career. You posted a 20-5-2 record. When you reflect back on your MMA career, what stands out in your mind?
Joey Clark defeated Brian Gassaway in a King of the Cage event in 2006 (Photo/Sherdog.com)And then I called King of the Cage numerous times after that … and they never put me in another show. So it was pretty depressing. It was kind of a letdown. Early in my career, I fought a guy named Sam Stout, who has done very well in the UFC. During that fight, I took him down about a dozen times. I was never once on my back. But after the fight, they called it a draw. After the event, I said to the promoter, "I can't believe it was a draw." He said, "Well, you guys are both early in your careers and we didn't want to give anybody a loss." I'm not making any excuses by any means, but these are just some of the things that were said and that happened along the way. It was just like I kept missing my break. I'm OK with that now because I'm doing my business. I'm really happy. I'm making a living without getting punched in the face.
When did you come to the realization that you might never get your shot at fighting in the UFC?
Clark: After I fought Gassaway and won, I fought a guy named Chad Reiner, who was in the UFC as well, and I lost a split decision, which was a very good fight. But I ended up getting a really bad concussion that fight. It stuck with me for about four days. I couldn't even roll over in bed without the world spinning. It was really scary. It made me really gun shy after that. I used to just come screaming across the cage. I held nothing back. After that fight, I was a lot more reserved. When you start talking about concussions, over time that's a scary thing. You have to look at what you want to do the rest of your life. That is probably the point where I realized in my head what is most important to me.
There has been a recent trend for successful collegiate wrestlers to move right into MMA after their collegiate careers are over. In recent years, we have seen collegiate standouts get into MMA like Gray Maynard, Rashad Evans, Frank Edgar, Johny Hendricks, Jake Rosholt, and Eric Bradley, among others. Most recently, after the last NCAA Championships, Chad Mendes and Phil Davis expressed interest in MMA. Why do you think wrestlers are choosing the MMA route immediately after their collegiate wrestling careers?
Clark: I think these guys are making the transition because of the money involved. You grew up wrestling and your family did. Wrestling is one of those things that we do without ever any kind of monetary value behind it. We do it just because we love it. It's something we have done since we were kids. It's just kind of embedded in you that this is something that we do. It's kind of like wrestling is a way of life. When MMA got big and all these wrestlers started having success in it … now with all these sponsors coming on board, there is a lot of money to be made in the world of MMA. I think these guys see that. They feel like they have some gas left in the tank after college. It's definitely a way to pay the bills if you get into the right organizations.
What kind of impact, if any, do you think it will have on the overall quality of wrestling in the United States?
Clark: I don't think it's going to really hurt the quality of wrestling. As far as collegiate wrestling, that has always stayed the same. But with freestyle and Greco, those styles have really been changing with the rules. To me, it's kind of even a different sport a little. What I think is going to happen is that a lot of younger kids are going to get involved in the MMA … just because there is a lot of money to be had. A lot of times parents push kids toward sports like that and kids excel at an earlier age. I wouldn't say that MMA would take over wrestling. I don't think it will. I just think it gives people another door to open with a whole bunch of other possibilities.
Marcus LeVesseur defeated Bryant Clark on March 29 to improve his MMA record to 12-1 (Photo/13twentythree.com)Clark: LeVesseur can be at the top if he wants to be. That's what I think. And I think he does want to be. The guy has phenomenal athletic ability. He's very gifted. If he wants to do it, just put your head down, butt up, and keep driving.
What specifically does he need to do to get to the next level?
Clark: His hands and speed are already there. If he can get his Jiu-Jitsu somewhere around his wrestling ability, I think he would be very impressive.
I want to ask you about another former wrestler, Joe Warren. Warren, who was a World champion Greco-Roman wrestler and the self-proclaimed "Baddest Man on the Planet," is now training MMA and signed with Team Quest after getting suspended from wrestling. From what you have seen of Warren in Greco-Roman wrestling, how do you expect his transition to be from wrestling to MMA?
Clark: When it comes to Joe Warren, I would say one thing: attitude. Attitude can overcome anything. And he has the attitude. When I found out that he was doing that, my hats off to him. I know he's going to succeed. He has the right positive mental attitude for it.
Are you a fan of the UFC?
Clark: Yeah, I watch it from time to time. I'm not a diehard fan, but I enjoy watching the fights. I enjoy the competition. I like seeing who is bringing what to the table and seeing who wins in the end.
Randy Couture resigned from the UFC in October and was very critical of the UFC's pay structure. Did his comments surprise you?
Clark: His comments didn't surprise me. What's happening now is that there are so many people who want to be in the UFC. There is that much of a supply of people who want to be in the UFC and that much of a demand, so the UFC doesn't have to pay them as much because people want to get in there so badly. If one guy won't fight for anything but $6,000 and another guy will fight for $2,500, they can be the guy who is demanding less. It's business.
I know you are extremely close with your younger brother, Jake, who is an Olympic hopeful in Greco-Roman wrestling. How much has he meant to your entire career as a competitor, both in wrestling and MMA?
Jake Clark and Joey ClarkI wish that I could still train with him. I wish that I could get him involved in some MMA stuff. I hope he does very well this year. That's probably the hardest part about getting out of the service is that I don't get to hang out with him anymore. It has been a long road. But he's kind of doing his journey and I'm doing mine.
You just turned 32. It appears that you could be very competitive in MMA for several more years. Why did you make the decision to hang up the gloves now?
Clark: Honestly, it was a business decision. I have been doing real estate for a while now. I have a new business. It's a system where I am able to help families and people pay off a 30-year-mortgage in as little in eight to 11 years. It's helping people lift the burden of debt from their shoulders. America is buried in debt. I have been doing real estate for about five years, so I have done a lot of foreclosures for people. There is a new company out there called United First Financial. What they do is show homeowners how to cancel interest on their first mortgage. What United First Financial brought out is called the money merge account, which also stands for MMA, which is kind of funny. They show homeowners how to cancel front-end loaded interest on their mortgages. Therefore, you don't have to pay on a mortgage for 30 years. You can pay on it for seven, eight, nine, 10, 11 years, which is amazing. I have been going all over the place and just helping people with this. The Web site is www.payoffmyproperty.com.
You are done competing, but do you still plan to stay involved with MMA or wrestling?
Clark: Yeah, definitely. I don't think I will ever be able to pull away from it. On another note, didn't Roger Clemens and some of these other guys come out of retirement? Never say never, my friend. When you have an itch, you have to scratch it. For the time being, I just needed one less thing on my plate.
Please Note: This story also appears in the April 18 issue of The Guillotine. The Guillotine has been covering amateur wrestling in Minnesota since 1971. Its mission is to report and promote amateur wrestling at all levels -- from youth and high school wrestling to college and international level wrestling. For information on The Guillotine, Click HERE.
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